I fear this will be a long shut down...

[Javaman]

the man-baby will never compromise on anything, why?

because if the gov opens back up, congress comes back into session, tiny johnson has to swear in Rep. Grijalva, which means there will be an vote on the Epstein files.

and there is one thing the man-baby doesn't want right now; for the public and his crazy for pedo's maga base to find out those files are filthy with his name.

I also think during this time, he will declare himself king, but that is just my personal tinfoil hat thing

[Chasstev365]

1. And I fear we'll fold and, yet again, Trump and the GOP will win.

[Groundhawg]

13. What else is there when we aren't in power?

[dwayneb]

16. We are screwed by the structure of our "democratic" goverment as much as anything

When open gerrymandering is permitted in the House and you have a Senate that by its very design over-represents tyrannical minority, and you have an antiquated Electoral College, you are always working uphill.

It can be overcome... but it requires twice the work that is does for the Fascists - because of geography.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

2. And during such time- I would like a the Democrat message

To be, if you are able, help your struggling neighbors, left AND right.

Compassion in Action.

[kerouac2]

3. They like to inflict pain. They love this.

It's as simple as that. They don't care about polls or elections because they control everything and are more than willing to do whatever they want. If it causes pain, that's a bonus.

The Dems are the party who will cave in the face of wide spread suffering.

They will be offered a promise of a later discussion and compromise that will never happen.

[Emile]

4. Republicans control all three branches of government.

It's totally up to the Republicans on how long they keep the government closed.

[gab13by13]

6. There is a huge problem with that scenario,

Congressional Magats can agree with spending money for our social safety net and because of the recissions clause Krasnov can just rescind the money later.

The time to take a stand was back in March with that CR. Should have fought back in March to protect Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, Obamacare reimbursements, etc, with guarantees that they would be protected. Krasnov got what he wanted, the cuts to our social safety net are etched into law, he doesn't need Congress, the 1% won't be affected by a shutdown.

[gab13by13]

5. The time to take a stand was back in March

Krasnov got everything he wanted, he got his Big Ugly Death Bill made into law. Krasnov doesn't need Congress now, except for the Senate to confirm his cronies and he can just make them "acting." or do away with the position.

Timing Mattered, will be a lot harder to undo a law than to get concessions before the law was passed.

[GoodRaisin]

14. They only needed 51 votes in March.

Now they need 60. Now is the time for Democrats to take a hard stand and refuse to fold. When the magats get their new insurance premiums in a couple of weeks they will start crying, “what??…wa wa wait! Not MY insurance”.

The Republicans were never going to concede the ACA subsidy cuts back in March when the BBB was being “negotiated”.

[Volaris]

7. This is exactly about Epstien, and dems need to say so.

Theyre hurting you because he's in there.
Theyre hurting your family because he's a predator.
Theyre screwing your healthcare because he screwed a child.
And they all know it. And WE all know it.
GLOVES OFF.

Those 4 brave Republicans who signed that petition (put aside the other crazy on this one)
are the sharp edge of the wedge. But unless you're willing to swing a fucking sledgehammer, that wedge is useless.

Theyre shutting YOUR government down, because there's (probably) photographic evidence of Donald Trump with his dick in a 14 year old. SAY IT, Democrats. What's the worst he can do, reopen the government just so he can sue you?
GREAT BRING IT ON.

[dwayneb]

15. Epstein files if released will be a blip on the radar

Remember this is the man who could murder someone in cold blood on Fifth Avenue and his devotees will continue to adore him. If its revealed he is on the Epstein party list people will simply declare it as "that's what men do" or it's just "locker room fun".

There is NOTHING that will ever stop the delusional worship of Trump by the deluded MAGA fools.

[Wiz Imp]

8. Congress will return to regular session on October 7, even if the shutdown is still ongoing.

[Jacson6]

9. As soon as ATC's refuse to work it will be over. n/t

[Volaris]

20. How long did that take last time, not quite a month, iirc?

But yeah, that'll do it. Flights stop, airports shut down, and that's the ballgame.

[Jacson6]

21. IIRC it was twelve days or two days before their payday. n/t

[Volaris]

22. Thank you! Its just me, but i have a feeling this will last till halloween, at least.

30 days seems about right this time, unless the treasury has some way to kite funds for another few weeks or so.

[wiggs]

10. We were headed to a dark ugly place before the shutdown. The shutdown will temporarily

make things worse...it's unclear to me what the ultimate outcome will be, whether or not resistance gains strength or deflates. This is a battle that could go either way. I hope dems and the shutdown give a few goprs cover to negotiate rather than dems giving in and getting nothing for the trouble but blame.

It should be stated that goprs and WH were shutting down important, key fed govt functions before this, doing much more harm to millions than the shutdown.

Good time for dems and MSM to bring up damage to FEMA, CDC, FDA, intelligence, alliances, norms, laws before the shutdown happened.

[wiggs]

11. Yes, our cruel ruthless administration will not pass up every opportunity to concentrate wealth and power. It's

hard for us, dems, and MSM to imagine where they will take this...we can't match their sociopathy.

[dwayneb]

17. Hard for us and impossible for a MAGA to imagine where this will take them too

We as Democrats and Progressives won't the only people screwed in the end. It will be every single middle class family, every single man or woman or child living in poverty, it will be every single person that is not in the upper 1% of the ultra wealthy.

But by the time they figure it out it will be far too late to turn back the clock, the damage will be done.

[gulliver]

12. We need to win elections and be smarter generally

We need more "logical liberalism." The idea that we need more leaders who will "fight" against the "fascists" is addictive in the worst sense and works only to deteriorate our strength and attractiveness to voters.

The government shutdown may be long as you say, partly because we simply defaulted into it by letting our instinct to fight for justice do an end run around our wiser faculties. If it feels right, suspect it.

[dwayneb]

18. Practical liberalism is what we need

Remember that the average person out there has been so dumbed down that many of them do not have the critical thinking skills to understand what "logical liberalism" means.

A younger version of Tim Walz is what we need. I love Bernie Sanders to death and agree with every word - but we have to understand that yelling "oligarchy" over and over goes over the head of the average American. We have to learn to work with what we have not what we WISH we had in the electorate.

[gulliver]

19. I like practical liberalism too

I agree with Bernie's aims, but I think his approach is insufficient to achieve victory. You can only get so far with railing against billionaires. It works up to a point. But it doesn't carry the day.

And, I agree, using the term "oligarchy" is just self-defeating. It's ironic. The people who use the word are using a linguistically elitist, "fifty cent word," to argue against elitism.