Note to HEGSETH: Ur no Admiral ZUMWALT - (beards were emblematic of something else, not "grooming" )

[UTUSN]

When this man relaxed, relieved the prohibition of beards in 1970?, it was a small/large times-are-a-changing catch-up to 1964. Separately, he was Blue Water *and* Brown Water.

*******QUOTE*******

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmo_Zumwalt

Elmo Russell "Bud" Zumwalt Jr.

(November 29, 1920 – January 2, 2000) was a United States Navy officer and the youngest person to serve as Chief of Naval Operations. As an admiral and later the 19th Chief of Naval Operations, Zumwalt played a major role in United States military history, especially during the Vietnam War. A decorated war veteran, Zumwalt reformed United States Navy personnel policies in an effort to improve enlisted life and ease racial tensions. After he retired from a 32-year navy career, he launched an unsuccessful campaign for the United States Senate. ....

Vietnam
After his selection for the rank of rear admiral, Zumwalt assumed command of Cruiser-Destroyer Flotilla Seven on 24 July 1965 in San Diego.[4] He then served as Director, Systems Analysis Division, OPNAV (OP-96) from August 1966 to August 1968.[5] In September 1968, he became Commander Naval Forces Vietnam and Chief of the Naval Advisory Group, United States Military Assistance Command Vietnam (MACV) and was promoted to vice admiral in October 1968. Zumwalt was the Navy adviser to General Creighton Abrams, Commander, MACV. Zumwalt always spoke very highly of Abrams, and said that Abrams was the most caring officer he had ever known.

Zumwalt's command was not a blue-water force, like the Seventh Fleet; it was a brown-water unit: he commanded the flotilla of Swift Boats that patrolled the coasts, harbors, and rivers of Vietnam. Among the swift-boat commanders were his son Elmo Russell Zumwalt III and later future senator and secretary of state John Kerry. Among his other forces were Task Force 115, the Coastal Surveillance Force, Task Force 116, the River Patrol Force and Task Force 117, the joint Army-Navy Mobile Riverine Force.[6] ....

Zumwalt assumed duties as Chief of Naval Operations and was promoted to full admiral on July 1, 1970, and quickly began a series of moves intended to reduce racism and sexism in the Navy. These were disseminated in Navy-wide communications known as "Z-grams". These included orders authorizing beards (sideburns, mustaches, and longer groomed hair were also acceptable) and introducing beer-dispensing machines to barracks. ....

********UNQUOTE*****

[Lifeafter70]

1. I met his nephew who had a full beard

He delivered my daughter when we were stationed in San Diego. My ob was unable to get to the hospital.
On edit: he could have been a cousin this was in 1972. Hubby was in the Navy at the time stationed in San Diego.

[UTUSN]

4. Wow, I had no imagining anybody knew of him, much less have a personal connection.

San Diego was my boot camp; my LST was in the Mobile Riverine Force '67-'68 (brown/blue water); had felt the liberalizing by '71 when my enlistment was up.

[Lifeafter70]

7. My ex-husband last duty station was shore duty in San Diego

Hw was a radar tec on Truxton and Gridlely. Both ships have been decomissioned.

[UTUSN]

8. Both of mine, too.

Last edited Wed Oct 8, 2025, 01:41 PM - Edit history (2)

The LST was built in 1945, a little too late for WW II, then served in Korea, at some point decommissioned then recommissioned and on to Vietnam. It was rusted and leaky by 1967 and we called it "benjo maru" (Japanese for "s**t ship" ) . It stayed on till 1971 and was brought back the last time and the outcome is murky, something about sold to a country south for use as a freighter. The bell, below, is honored at a Marine base.

My second was brand new, not finished when I got on it at the Bremerton, WA, shipbuilding place, so we spent seven months with per diem to rent in Seattle until it was ready. Oh, Seattle, the remains of the World's Fair, riding the monorail there for concerts and a movie premiere, and my first and only opera and ballet. "Schooners" goblets of beer. First time for snow. Bookstores and antique shops, riding the ferry across the Sound daily to the ship. We were the Commissioning crew, known as Plankowners (named for the "planks" of wooden ships) , eligible to claim a piece of the ship when it would be scrapped, supposedly, because at the scrapping the contractors are only interested in their work and getting paid, not sentimental traditions. So when it was ready, proceeded the Shakedown Cruise, like a new car, breaking it in - down the coast, stop at San Diego, stop at Acapulco, through the Panama Canal, over to Guantanamo Bay for six weeks of running around exercises, beer at the base green from (formaldehyde?) preservative, Liberty stopovers at New Orleans and (Navy humor: ) Haiti - amazing that 30 and more years later Haiti and Gitmo stayed in the news. Stopover at Mayport/Jacksonville, finally to the destination, homeport Norfolk, VA - any explanation for building a ship on one coast and homeporting it on the other?

I never thought I'd see my new ship decommissioned and scrapped, given that the first one was used to the last piece of rust.

[UTUSN]

9. Souvenirs

Last edited Wed Oct 8, 2025, 01:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Liberty, Japan:


Liberty, Seattle:


Liberty, yes/Haiti :

[oasis]

2. Admiral Zumwalt is my kind of military leader.

[UTUSN]

6. A worthy salute.

[DFW]

3. We just missed meeting Bud Zumwalt.

But one of his daughters is a good friend of ours, and our children are also very close (as in crossing the Atlantic to attend each other’s weddings).

Nixon hated Bud’s guts for allowing blacks and women to become officers, and ordered Jim Schlesinger, then Defense Secretary, to fire Bud as head of the Navy just before he resigned. But Schlesinger ran out the clock, and Nixon was gone before he “got around” to carrying out the order. Schlesinger was no idiot, and knew how popular Zumwalt was with the rank and file.

One tragedy that plagued Bud til he died was accepting chemical industry claims that the defoliant Agent Orange was not dangerous to humans. His son, a swift boat commander who came into frequent contact with Agent Orange, paid for that with his life (resulting cancer). Bud, himself, was felled by environmental ignorance, as exposed asbestos inside navy ships over the years got into his lungs. His son-in-law, Michael, a physician, was by his side at the end, but by then it was just too late to treat.

[UTUSN]

5. The breadth of your life experience is more amazing all the time.

Woeful insight into Agent Orange and asbestos, "environmental ignorance".

[DFW]

10. According to his daughter, Ann, and her husband, he never forgave himself for losing his son

Asbestos was used for decades before it filled his lungs, but he took the word of the US chemical industry too readily when they gave him their assurances on the harmlessness of Agent Orange. The consequences, including the loss of his son, never completely gave him peace for the rest of his life.

One little event you'll enjoy: in 2014, we were invited to join the Zumwalts for the christening of the first of the new Zumwalt class of destroyer at the Bath Iron Works in Maine. Some attendees were given honorary "Skipper" hats, usually only worn by the ship's captain (his name was really Captain James Kirk!). So, we were wearing them in the Portland airport, on the way home after the ceremonies. A young woman saw them, and ran up to us, and asked us (including his daughter and granddaughters!) if we had any connection to Admiral Zumwalt. When we said yes, we did, she told us that the man she worked for also knew him well, and was still obsessed with his great humanity. We said that was nice to hear, and by the way, who DID she work for? His name was Bill Clinton.

[UTUSN]

11. Hah at this thought: That since your fate is to know Stars *and* we've brushed here at DU, perhaps

it means I am destined to be one by reviving my dream of literary greatness!1

[DFW]

12. There you go!

I always had daydreams of recognition for musical or literary greatness, but I “let” my day (and night!) job and my family take precedence. There must be a few Übermenschen out there who can do it all, and enjoy the wealth and fame that goes with it. But I’m just not one of them, and at 73 have lost most of my ambition to become one.

Yes, my path has crossed that of a few special people, and I have even had the privilege of calling some of them friends. It’s easy to fall into the trap of getting the impression I live in the pages of People Magazine, due to a few saved photos used for posts. But the reality is that most days I just get up and go to work like everybody else. I’m not starving, and have a rather cool job and family, and if that’s not enough to say things are OK, then I’m content to remain an under-achiever.