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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTens of thousands of Canadians died waiting for medical care in the past year: report
A new report is raising alarm over growing wait-list deaths in Canada.
The report from public policy think tank SecondStreet.org revealed that at least 23,746 patients died in Canada while waiting for surgeries or diagnostic procedures between April 2024 and March 2025.
The figures are a three per cent increase from the previous year and push the total number of reported wait-list deaths since 2018 to more than 100,000.
The organization says the findings are based on freedom of information (FOI) requests summitted to more than 40 provincial and territorial health bodies.
The report warned that several jurisdictions provided only partial data, while Alberta and some parts of Manitoba provided none, meaning the true total is likely higher.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/article/more-than-23000-canadians-died-on-medical-wait-lists-in-the-past-year-new-report-finds/
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The problem is, depending on where you live will determine how fast a procedure gets done. Here in BC, for instance, to get prostate surgery in one region may take 7-8 weeks, whereas in others, it can take as much as 35 on average. But, if you are assigned to a doctor with a heavy case load, it might take even longer.
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leftstreet
(38,568 posts)
hlthe2b
(112,339 posts)Tragic stories are not really "LOL" funny for most.
leftstreet
(38,568 posts)Other recommendations include partnering with private clinics at lower costs than hospitals, providing patients a mix of public and private options, and adopting an EU-style “Cross Border Directive” that would allow patients to seek treatment elsewhere either within or outside Canada and be reimbursed up to the amount their provincial government would have spent.
A better article would be "Unlike the US, no Canadians go bankrupt from medical debt"
samsingh
(18,228 posts)
Bluetus
(2,051 posts)It only said that they were waiting for treatment. About 250,000 Canadians die each year. 10% of them were evidently awaiting some treatment.
My mother died in a nursing home, and she was definitely awaiting some treatments. But in the end, none of those treatments were likely to provide a cure, and might not have extended life or reduced suffering.
All this article shows is that the HC profiteers are trying to do to Canada what they have already done to the US.
leftstreet
(38,568 posts)These articles have been showing up for decades, whenever Americans start talking about Medicare For All, or politicians squawk about "vouchers," etc
If scores of people are dying from wait times, you build more clinics, recruit more healthcare workers.
You don't give your available funding to insurance companies and private hospital conglomerates
travelingthrulife
(4,026 posts)
Mariana
(15,610 posts)and what they died from. Say, if someone died of Covid while they're waiting for a knee replacement, are they included in that figure?
In the US, my dad died of cancer while he was waiting for a biopsy. It wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference, the cancer moved very fast and he was doomed.
Bluetus
(2,051 posts)Lots of people die while on the waiting list for a compatible heart or lung. In fact, these lists are prioritized on several factors, such as probability of success, age of the recipient etc.
And I don't know how hospice difference between the US and Canada, both policy-wise and socially. I believe that under Medicare, there are liberal hospice rules, enabling lots of services for comfort and quality of life, but when entering hospice, one must renounce major procedures like transplants and other surgeries. A person can remain on hospice a long time, as Jimmy Carter did. It is not just for the last few weeks of life. However, this also means that a person who has entered hospice will not be considered waiting for medical treatment. Does Canada have the same system, or would their numbers be counted differently.
In the US, about half the people who die while under Medicare use hospice benefits, That's a big number that could easily explain numerical differences between the US and other countries.
OnlinePoker
(6,063 posts)Canada has Medical Assistance in Dying. In 2023, 4.7% of people chose this option to terminate their lives, or 15,343 individuals. I'm sure some of these were also counted in the study the report cited. We do have a fairly good end of life hospice care, but there are long wait times to get into non-end of life supportive care homes, 1-2 years in many cases in BC.
ananda
(34,135 posts)Privateers trying to get Canada to go private.
EdmondDantes_
(1,227 posts)Every system has trade offs. You can't really define better without more context than just top level numbers.
For example proportionally more people die in Canada waiting for medical care than in the US. Is going bankrupt worse than dying? How many bankruptcies are worse than letting one person die? How much should be spent if a treatment gives x days of life, what role does quality of life play? I don't have answers to those questions because they are hard.
I'm not suggesting our system is working because it clearly isn't, but it doesn't look like Canada's system is working either. Just because one isn't working doesn't mean another is.
leftstreet
(38,568 posts)If so, your experiences would be valuable. If not, you unwittingly prove the article is indeed propaganda
You get this from reading an article sponsored by a conservative think tank pushing privatized healthcare?
EX500rider
(12,115 posts)Wait times by specialty
Longest waits: Orthopaedic Surgery (57.5 weeks), Neurosurgery (46.2 weeks)
Shorter waits: Radiation Oncology (4.5 weeks), Medical Oncology (4.7 weeks)
Wait times by province (2024)
Longest waits: Prince Edward Island (77.4 weeks), New Brunswick (69.4 weeks)
Shortest waits: Ontario (23.6 weeks), Quebec (28.9 weeks)
OnlinePoker
(6,063 posts)Select a procedure and see how long they take in the various jurisdictions.
https://swt.hlth.gov.bc.ca/swt/
niyad
(128,919 posts)uses loaded, emotionally manipulative words.
EX500rider
(12,115 posts)EdmondDantes_
(1,227 posts)You can't just assume the numbers are wrong because you don't like the source.
Health care is an expensive worldwide problem. In the US we spend the most for relatively results in terms of life expectancy, but generally do things relatively quickly. Other countries tend to do stuff way cheaper, but longer.
As the saying goes, quick, cheap, good, you can only pick 2.
Jedi Guy
(3,392 posts)As others have pointed out, some of those folks who died very likely lived in remote areas that aren't well covered by healthcare resources. The northern provinces are especially vulnerable to this phenomenon since there are times of the year where the only way in or out is by air. There are plenty of remote places in the other provinces that suffer likewise.
That said, the wait times really are atrocious in some cases even when you're not trying to see a rare specialist. I have a referral to a dermatologist that's been pending for over a year now.
It's by no means a perfect system and not every criticism of it is by default propaganda. There are genuine issues that need to be resolved and it's not as simple as "well just hire more healthcare providers". The cost of an education in that field is horrific and once people have gotten those degrees it's more lucrative to leave and go work in the States, so we end up suffering a constant brain drain.
I'm happy that we have healthcare, though, warts (and high taxes) and all. It beats the hell out of going bankrupt because a single emergency medical bill is hideously expensive and out of reach of most folks.
Attilatheblond
(7,949 posts)And I was NEVER able to get into a GYN there. Only pregnant women were give appointments due to too few doctors/Two of the GYNs in a major clinic in one of the few actual cities in MT were arrested for warrants in other states. One MD in a smaller city was busted for not actually being a doctor.
We have many weird issues here in the US. There are simply not enough practitioners to meet the needs of the population. Trump mob's moves on limiting education and professional certification for medical support professionals will not help at all. The rich don't want us regular people slowing down THEIR medical care. I heard this directly from the wife of a billionaire out in the Montana boonies.
Now, living in the US/Mexico borderlands, I know LOTS of people who go to Mexico for medical and dental care. Even more cross the border to get prescriptions filled as they can't afford the costs here in the US, even with insurance.
Bluetus
(2,051 posts)Considering we have 40+ million people with no HC coverage, I don't see how your statement could possibly be true.
If you were stating an imaginary premise for the sake of argument, that's fine, but you should make clear it is not based in fact.
EdmondDantes_
(1,227 posts)I've seen up to 44,000 annually, but even that would be a substantially lower per capital given the population disparity.
Bluetus
(2,051 posts)It all depends on how the numbers are recorded and calculated. But for starters, that source is foreign, so they probably have little understanding of the details of our medical reporting. And they are known to have a right-wing bias.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-economic-times/
I really don't see how any of these propagandists can get past the 40+ million Americans with no coverage at all. There is no way our system is more responsive than the Canadian system. My guess is that the propagandists simply excluded the uninsured altogether.
Grins
(9,167 posts)Question: Did the "report" compare Americans dying while waiting for medical care to Canadians?
Or those Americans who HAVE NO HEALTH CARE at all?
orangecrush
(27,772 posts)Stacey Grove
(156 posts)Capitalist insurance terrorist tripe.
rurallib
(64,464 posts)OnlinePoker
(6,063 posts)rurallib
(64,464 posts)were counted even if people were waiting for surgeries on non-life threatening surgeries such as cataracts or knee surgeries:
The report emphasizes that the bulk of wait-list deaths occurred among patients awaiting procedures that could have improved their quality of life, such as hip and knee surgeries, cataract operations and MRIs, but a significant subset involved potentially life-saving interventions including heart surgeries and cancer treatments.
So while the implication of the headline is that Canadians are dying waiting for that life saving surgery, in fact they sometime die while waiting for a quality of life changing surgery. Considering that many of those are probably older people, it is hardly surprising.
róisín_dubh
(12,200 posts)Why did you think it might interest people? To what end?
I live in a country with a much maligned national health system (UK, NHS). I am very, very wary of these kinds of posts.
underpants
(194,173 posts)There is no single, official 2023 figure for deaths due to lack of healthcare, as it's difficult to quantify directly. However, studies and analyses from related to 2023 or recent years suggest thousands to tens of thousands of deaths are linked to inadequate healthcare access annually. Estimates vary widely, with some studies showing over 26,000 to 45,000 preventable deaths, and a 2025 analysis of policy changes projected around 22,000 annual deaths due to loss of coverage.
Estimated annual deaths: Studies have estimated that hundreds of thousands of excess deaths are linked to insurance gaps each year, with specific figures ranging from 26,000 to over 45,000 in different analyses. A more recent analysis predicted an additional 22,000 deaths annually from a loss of health coverage.
Contributing factors: The lack of insurance is linked to several negative health outcomes, including the inability to get needed care, a lack of a regular doctor, and a loss of continuity in coverage.
Mental health care access: An estimated 55% of adults with mental illness do not receive treatment, and 42% of those who don't cite cost as the primary barrier.
Other factors: Other factors contributing to these deaths include the use of poor-quality health services, lack of access to timely preventive care, and challenges in accessing behavioral health service
rog
(907 posts)n/t
I assumed that was the case, but just wanted to double-check.
My sis is a Canadian citizen (dual citizenship), and she loves Canadian health care. She has raised two kids to adulthood, currently being treated for CLL, was hospitalized for nearly a month while they figured out a tricky major heath issue. Canada even paid for her husband's parking when he came to visit every day. He recently had a major surgery that was totally successful. Neither of them has ever seen a medical bill, and I had to explain what a copay is ... they've never seen that. Also, because of some program they have up there, she gets a very expensive long-term medication free of charge. Neither my sis nor her family have had a problem getting timely medical care. My sis' husband was taken care of quickly for his most recent serious surgery, but he *did* have to get on a waiting list for his previous knee replacement ... also totally successful. I don't think that's much different than it is here.
My sis *did* have to pay $6CDN to rent crutches when her kid broke his ankle snowboarding off their roof ... the medical attention was covered, though!
highplainsdem
(59,202 posts)Attilatheblond
(7,949 posts)When applied to AI, one wonders if there isn't a lot of 'propaganda in/propaganda out' mucking up the results.
jaymac
(146 posts)hlthe2b
(112,339 posts)I'd suspect we would dwarf those numbers in Canada. We may well already do so.
There is no single, official 2023 figure for deaths due to lack of healthcare, as it's difficult to quantify directly. However, studies and analyses from related to 2023 or recent years suggest thousands to tens of thousands of deaths are linked to inadequate healthcare access annually. Estimates vary widely, with some studies showing over 26,000 to 45,000 preventable deaths, and a 2025 analysis of policy changes projected around 22,000 annual deaths due to loss of coverage.
Estimated annual deaths: Studies have estimated that hundreds of thousands of excess deaths are linked to insurance gaps each year, with specific figures ranging from 26,000 to over 45,000 in different analyses. A more recent analysis predicted an additional 22,000 deaths annually from a loss of health coverage.
Contributing factors: The lack of insurance is linked to several negative health outcomes, including the inability to get needed care, a lack of a regular doctor, and a loss of continuity in coverage.
Mental health care access: An estimated 55% of adults with mental illness do not receive treatment, and 42% of those who don't cite cost as the primary barrier.
Other factors: Other factors contributing to these deaths include the use of poor-quality health services, lack of access to timely preventive care, and challenges in accessing behavioral health service
A new state-by-state study by Families USA has found that nearly 45, 000 annual deaths are associated with lack of health insurance in the United States. The study estimates that 35, 327 to 44, 789 people between the ages of 18 and 64 die in the U. S. each year because they lack health insurance, which is more than double the number who die annually from kidney disease. Nearly three of five underinsured adults said they avoided getting needed health care because of its cost, while 44% said they had medical or dental debt they were paying off over time.
lostnfound
(17,328 posts)Too much stress, obstacles, confusion about approvals, wait times..wrong diagnosis.
Who needs it?
GreenWave
(12,112 posts)KT2000
(21,864 posts)from medical care for lack of insurance causes death as well. Wait lists to see specialists here can run 6 months or more where I live. Is anyone calculating how the US systems causes deaths?
niyad
(128,919 posts)describes itself as "free market".
RockCreek
(1,206 posts)From the Everything Explained Today website: "https://everything.explained.today/Canada_Strong_and_Free_Network/"
The Canada Strong and Free Network (formerly the Manning Centre for Building Democracy (MCBD) or Manning Centre) based in Calgary, Alberta, is a not-for-profit political advocacy group[1] that was established in 2005 by Preston Manning to promote conservative principles.[2] It was known for the annual "high-profile" Manning Networking Conference (MNC). The Manning Centre operates the for-profit think tank the Manning Foundation, which undertakes some research and analysis, while the Manning Centre self-describes as a "do-tank", that focuses on advocacy, training and networking events for conservatives.
Beringia
(5,305 posts)SheltieLover
(75,482 posts)
AZJonnie
(2,452 posts)If someone died of liver failure while waiting to be seen to get skin tags removed, I would think their 'waiting' status is not all that relevant. I'd hope the "free market" think tank (per Niyad above) would not make such an glaring logical error, but it would be useful to assess whether they might have.
rurallib
(64,464 posts)AZJonnie
(2,452 posts)
Silent Type
(12,222 posts)
W_HAMILTON
(9,950 posts)Have people tried to use the healthcare here in America? To see a specialist? Usually they are booked up months in advance.
DoBW
(2,957 posts)
Blue Full Moon
(3,047 posts)The number of people with no health care and no dental care. This screams as a propaganda piece. They trot these out when universal health care is brought up here.
Fiendish Thingy
(21,707 posts)Second Street is a Canadian conservative think tank- check out the bios of their board members, as well as the front page of the website featuring a puff piece on Alberta Premier Danielle Smith’s disastrous, hate mongering policies.
Critical thinking requires the following questions be asked:
The people who died while on waitlists- what was their cause of death? Was it related to the reason they were on the waitlist, or were they in their 80’s, or in a car crash?
Also, how many people’s lives were saved who would otherwise have died without treatment?
And for comparison’s sake, how many Americans die each year from being uninsured, denied healthcare or deferring care because the costs are too high?
My experience in BC (both personally and professionally, as a retired therapist who worked for the health authority) is that, at least in Urban areas, life threatening issues such stroke, cancer and heart disease are dealt with in a timely manner, especially once a diagnosis is confirmed. Quality of life issues, such as joint replacement surgeries, typically have the longest wait times.
Of course, the Canadian Healthcare system has much room for improvement (which citizens are taking into their own hands by stealing, er, recruiting doctors and other healthcare professionals from the US), but having had experience with both systems, personally and professionally (and I had a “Cadillac” plan from my last US employer), I would take the Canadian system without question.
Just a reminder to always consider the source, as well as the methodology when reading about any study that makes claims of conclusive fact.
unblock
(55,830 posts)Plenty of people die in any random stretch of a few weeks for all kinds of reasons. And people in need of tests and surgeries are probably a higher risk overall.
Some of the deaths are due to the delay no doubt, but it's probably a relatively small percentage.
andym
(6,047 posts)versus limited resources.
The first question is not answered quantitatively, the report says it's a significant subset, but the number might not be known. The report in fact criticizes the lack of specific collected data.
Clearly resources are not just access to the system:
Some wait for critical biological material like donor organs:
https://organtissuedonation.ca/en/about says about 250 Canadians die before receiving a needed organ for transplant because the organ is not available.
Progressive dog
(7,558 posts)Ontario’s cardiac data alone showed 355 deaths among patients waiting for heart procedures.
In at least 90 cases, patients waited beyond recommended timelines or more than 90 days.
The article went from 10,634 to 344 to at least 90 who actually might have died while waiting.
And then there is this] The wait times associated with some recorded deaths ranged from under a week to nearly nine years.
Keepthesoulalive
(2,055 posts)Beware of feeds bringing disinformation.
AmandaRuth
(3,195 posts)tens of thousands Americans died from lack of care, and tens of thousands more died from waiting for care and going bankrupt at the same time.
Would a statement like that make more sense?
yaesu
(8,845 posts)they spread missinfo about everything in the West that is good for democracies. By the way, it prob will be true for the US as doctor shortages skyrocket do to the fascists policies against foreign healthcare workers.
stopdiggin
(14,825 posts)(by almost any measure) not to mention overall, in national systems.
And efforts to cherry pick figures and nuance do nothing save attempt to deflect and obscure - that blunt essential fact.
Spazito
(55,232 posts)The current Alberta government is trying to expand private healthcare and this 'analysis' is to help that along.
hatrack
(64,045 posts)
Spazito
(55,232 posts)
multigraincracker
(36,777 posts)Canadians would not trade their system for ours. I’ve asked a few.
SWBTATTReg
(25,910 posts)benefit from doing so, e.g., to make Canada look bad (which IMHO, djt wouldn't mind having Canada look bad, so his garbage crap wouldn't smell so bad compared to other things).
Just as a heads up, trust is all in the mind, and how we all treat each other on the 'block', etc. I do have a lot of trust in our Canada friends, always have, always will. That little blurb about being good neighbors is in fact, true.
Melon
(935 posts)He is coming to the US for surgery and was scheduled within two weeks. He will be 8 months out for the scheduled surgery in Canada and was told he will permanently lose range of motion and mobility in a few months. I’ve heard this for years for Canada and the UK. Those with money will come to the US to get urgent procedures done.
Mosby
(19,191 posts)Don't look up the US unless you want another reason to hate US healthcare. It's been on my mind recently because I have a surgery coming up, and all I have access to about my surgeon is Google reviews. 😐
Cirsium
(3,235 posts)It should not even be posted here, let alone taken seriously.
DoBW
(2,957 posts)
Whyisthisstillclose
(337 posts)died in six months after getting the Covid vax". Hit by cars, shot, cancer, and every other reason under the sun. But they died!
DFW
(59,526 posts)When I think “report,” I expect an unbiased factual bit of prose, and not some “see? We’re worse than you are!”
Here in Germany, when she was working, my wife was covered under the usual “tourist class” health insurance that most working Germans have. When she was diagnosed with probable breast cancer in January 2001, she was scheduled for a small operation. It confirmed the bad news, and they said she needed a big operation ASAP or it would spread. Their idea of ASAP was late May, and it did indeed spread. By then, she needed a big operation, after which she needed chemo, radiation and a month at a cancer victims rehab spa. It was long and brutal, but it seemed to have worked. It probably would have worked a LOT better if they had operated months earlier, but there were “scheduling issues” for tourist class insurance holders.
The second time she got cancer, it was 15 years later, and it was an always-fatal kind known in Germany as “the murderer,” because it was very silent, and never discovered until it was too late. She was 64. By now, she had no more health insurance, since she had taken early retirement at age 60, and her German version of Medicare had not kicked in yet (you have to turn 65). We had enrolled her in a sort if German COBRA health insurance program. It was about $7250 a year, but no way was I going to leave her with nothing. That was lucky, because when she was diagnosed with The Murderer, she was immdiately referred to one of the top oncologists/clinics for this kind of cancer. He told us flat out it was bad news, BUT he had NEVER seen it caught this early, and she might just have a chance. She scheduled for an immediate, brutal six hour operation, during which they took 84 biospsies (!!!!!!!). We sweated for three days, but on the third day we met with the surgeon, who said that ALL 84 biopsies had come back negative. No metastasis at all. He didn’t want to give us false hope, but she just might be that one in ten thousand who survived the murderer. Most women with that diagnosis alre dead within 18 months. My wife had her operation nine years ago and is still cancer-free. She WAS the one.
So, the system plays a role, but not always the sole role. Luck can be just as crucial.
gab13by13
(30,824 posts)and I made it a point to ask them about their healthcare.
99% of them told me the same story, yes since poor people are in line, if someone needs a knee replacement or other non-life threatening issue there is a pretty long waiting time. They also told me that people who have serious issues get waited on in a timely manner.
I asked them if they would trade their healthcare for ours and nobody said they would.
rurallib
(64,464 posts)As he said they triage those needing attention. If you are dying you are at the front of the line.
Many years ago I went to Canada on an assignment and talked to folks about their healthcare compared to ours which hadn't quite yet become the monster it is now. Absolutely no one wanted to swap their system for ours.
Tree Lady
(12,942 posts)Canadians in their early 20's and have been up there ever since one in BC and the other in Toronto area been there ever since one became Canadian citizen few years back. Both feel lucky to have the heath care had their babies there, one had husband who had major lung operation no problems.
maxsolomon
(37,965 posts)So, "Tens of thousands of Canadians died waiting for medical care" the previous year, too.
A 3% increase to 23,746 means 23, 054 died waiting in 2023.
THIS PROOVS SOSHLYZED MEDISIN DONT WORK GUD!
Wednesdays
(21,482 posts)Swede
(38,035 posts)Canadian Taxpayer Federation, the Fraser Institute, the Canadian Constitution Foundation, et cetera. It's spokesman was a member of the Reform party, a far rightwing Christian fundamentalist party.
So I would take this with a few million grains of salt.
https://rabble.ca/politics/canadian-politics/donner-canadian-foundation-prominent-funder-right-wing-groups/
The Bopper
(269 posts)That there are also "wait lists" in the USA along with NEVER GETTING needed healthcare at all is the only option for 10's of millions Americans strictly because of affordability.. some think hospitals have to treat you no matter what...NOT TRUE..they are only required to try and keep you alive in the moment and elective surgeries aren't that..
Justice matters.
(9,175 posts)in huge numbers. Can't live forever.
OTOH, that "report" is from a right-wing healthcare-for-profits think tank that constantly pressures lawmakers to favor private clinics over public care because they want tax breaks for their rich clients.
Kid Berwyn
(22,468 posts)Plus, we get to go broke in the process, which is nice for the rich.
Ritabert
(1,873 posts)Unlike the US.