Lets be absolutely clear. Destroying oil refineries and storage sites in and around Tehran,

[flashman13]

turning streams and sewers into rivers of fire, poisoning the air and water that millions of people depend on while also poisoning food producing irrigation systems is a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY. It is a form of mass murder or genocide if you like. It is the very thing that we tried, convicted and hanged Nazi leaders for 80 years ago.

Don't comfort yourself by saying that the Israeli's bombed those sites. That doesn't matter. We have financed and armed Israel for decades. One phone call to Bibi by a rational President could have prevented this entire war. We have a totally irrational President. We are responsible. We are complicit.

We are now careening down the road in a clown car hell bent on disaster. We, all of us, will pay a terrible price before this is over. On that point, U.S. intelligence services have just issued warnings that they believe Iran has activated Iranian sleeper cells in the country.

Hey Vance, if you ever want to be President, here is your chance. Invoke the 25th Amendment today.

[Walleye]

1. 90 miles an hour down a dead end Street first recorded by Hank Snow in 1963

"There's a bad motorcycle with the devil in the seat / Going ninety miles an hour down a dead end street" I keep thinking this is our situation now

[CanonRay]

2. There's going to be hell to pay for this

and guess who's going to pay the price...us. President I'm Not Responsible for Anything will blame Biden, Hillary, Hegseth and anyone else he feels like throwing under the bus.

[flashman13]

3. I'm afraid the price will not just be calculated in dollars.

[Kaleva]

4. Allies did the same against the Germans and Japanese during WWII

Your comment:


“It is a form of mass murder or genocide if you like. It is the very thing that we tried, convicted and hanged Nazi leaders for 80 years ago.“

History shows that it is usually only the losers in a conflict that get tried for war crimes.

[flashman13]

5. Even if we declare victory and go home - we are going to be the losers here.

This CF marks the end of the American Empire. It appears that has been Trump's plan from the beginning. That will be the one and only success in his entire life.

[Kaleva]

19. Based on history, I very much doubt Trump will be charged with war crimes

[maxrandb]

14. I have heard that shit from some of my former "shipmates" in the Navy

Excusing shit like the former Navy SEAL who targeted children and desecrated corpses.

It was always; "well, some of the veterans in WWII, Korea and Vietnam did some atrocious, inhumane shit during those wars."

It's the worst form of "whataboutism" in the history of what about isms.

It's like excusing slavery by saying; "people used to own slaves".

My comment is; "fuck that shit, because we, as a civilized society are supposed to be better".

We are supposed to have evolved and grown as human fucking beings since the days we were walking on all fours, courting the opposite sex with a rock to the head.

That's my fucking comment.

Lose your humanity if you wish, I'll keep mine, especially since NONE OF THIS WAS NECESSARY OR IMINENT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Iran was in a fucking box. Sure, they were fucking insane religious nutjobs, but they were no more a threat to the United States than Venezuelan fishing boats are.

If this were truly about threats to the world, we'd be bombing the fuck out of the Russian forces attacking and murdering civilians in Ukraine.

That will NEVER happen, because unlike Iran, Russia might have the ability to shoot back.

[Kaleva]

18. Nothing you stated refutes what I said

Do you not agree that it is usually only the losers in a conflict that get tried for war crimes?

[flashman13]

20. You are right. The losers go on trial. That means we will see Trump and Netanyahu at the ICC.

When this is over there will be no doubt who the losers were. It will be us. It won't be Iran.

[maxrandb]

22. Sigh...we held some accountable under the UCMJ

So no, there were no Nuremberg Trials, and quite a great deal of incidents were prosecuted, but not convicted.

Many atrocities were excused and NOT prosecuted, but in my 29 years in the Navy, it was drilled into us what was and was not expected of us. Just because some drunk Christofascist, or orange piece of amphibian shit has no honor, it doesn't mean I have no honor.

–------------

140 US soldiers were convicted and executed by court martial for murder and rape. 18 or 19 were for crimes committed in Britain so presumably not war crimes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_by_the_United_States_military

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0011128796042004001

UK records for the period have not been digitized so there’s no easily confirmed number.

Members of the USSR armed forces were convicted in the post Soviet era of WW2 era war crimes by courts in Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.

Two French soldiers were executed for participation in a massacre of prisoners in 1942.

[Eko]

31. Are you saying that bombing the oil sites was ok?

[ChicagoTeamster]

6. But Vance will follow through with what Trump started. We need depose and to put the whole criminal regime on trial.

[wnylib]

8. I was about to say the same thing.

Vance would be no better. After him is Johnson, who can't even run the House effectively, let alone a nation. Nobody in the cabinet would be an improvement.

BTW, I read here or at another website, that Iran's president has said that Iran will kill Trump as retaliation for the death of the Ayatollah. I have a hunch that that is why Trump made a public show of himself happily playing golf, like saying. "I am not afraid."

[LeftInTX]

10. Iran won't kill Trump! He knows it.

Iran will kill ordinary Americans at the most.

[flashman13]

9. There is no question that Vance is evil, but he is not insane. He will pull the plug on this fiasco before

the economy crashes into a full blown depression.

Vance has been mysteriously quiet recently. Possibly he wants plausible deniability for being a part of Trump's war. That would make it easier for him to back down.

[popsdenver]

16. If Vance tries anything counter to Trump

Trump will simply have the Republican House impeach Vance, the Senate convict him, and then Trump (per 2025 group) will be instructed to install Stephen Miller as VP............Then the Repubs will do the same to Trump and install Miller as President who will appoint another 2025 asshole as VP??????????????????????

[yardwork]

26. I don't know who or what Vance is.

He's changed his name three times. He used to be critical of Trump, now he's his biggest supporter. Vance is in it for Vance - whoever Vance decides to be when he gets up in the morning.

We can't predict anything he might do. Except that it will be yo his personal benefit, measured in dollars.

[Marie Marie]

7. Nice that Evil Orange had the time and mental capacity to tune it all out

and go play golf this weekend. Must have needed that respite after having to show up (in Biden's state) and pretend to care about the deaths that he caused.

[NoMoreRepugs]

11. Vance will do WHATEVER Theil tells him to do - to think otherwise is foolish.

[Orrex]

12. Add it to the list of crimes for which he'll never, ever be held seriouisly accountable.

[malaise]

13. is a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY.

Aka gassing people

[stollen]

15. I wonder what hurricane season will be like this year

Polar vortex diminished by CO2, jet stream reaching further south. Reduced, in any, FEMA. The fascist right is way in over their horned heads unless the plan is to destroy the country.

[patphil]

17. Israel unleashes toxic hell on Tehran

https://time.com/7383099/iran-news-oil-strikes-tehran/

https://www.nbcnews.com/world/iran/iran-war-israel-us-tehran-oil-refineries-acid-rain-global-markets-rcna262390

https://theconversation.com/what-international-law-says-about-the-israeli-strikes-on-iranian-oil-facilities-277875

Remember, this is a war that Israel started. Iran may be run by evil people, but the Israeli government isn't that far behind. Iran killed tens of thousands of their own people, and Israel killed tens of thousands of Palestinians.
There is an evil in the middle east that seems to infect all the governments in the area.

And Trump, most obligingly, gave Israel a helping hand with some bullshit "justification" and a lot of bombs and missiles.
It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better, and we helped get it going.

[flashman13]

21. It was intentional overkill meant to punish Iranians. One or two hits on essential infrastructure and

the oil facilities would have been taken out of production. The Ukrainians are shutting down Russian facilities without causing industrial holocausts.

The Israelis killed 70,000 plus people and razed a city of 2 million inhabitants. Now, with our help, they intend to destroy a city of 10 million. The difference is that Iran has the ability to defend itself. The implications are nothing less than horrific.

[Blue_playwright]

23. Intentional genocide and climate destruction

Cause as much pain as possible and be remembered for generations to come.

[flashman13]

24. I hadn't really thought about it in that light. It was an attack on every living thing on the planet.

[LymphocyteLover]

32. PURE EVIL. THERE HAVE TO BE WAR CRIMES PROSECUTIONS.

[elliesmandt]

25. Pandora's Box

Trump and Netanyahu have opened a modern day Pandora's Box, and the effects of their rash actions will be felt for years.

[flashman13]

29. You are absolutely right. There will be short term set backs during this "invasion". More importantly there

will be long term ramifications which will sharply erode America's favored position in the world.

This was all predictable and totally unnecessary.

Is this just the result of the utter stupidity of Trump and the right wingers? Or was this part of a nefarious plan to weaken the country?

Only time will tell.

[Mysterian]

27. All republican voters are responsible

Not just the evil monsters they put in charge.

[leftstreet]

28. DURec

[jfz9580m]

30. K&R

Sheer lunacy..I keep glumly wondering if this is one of those “darkest before dawn” things and separate from the global mess, but connected to the extent that everything is more so these days than anyone sane could want thanks to rubbish tech, I am doing my duty where I can by clearly sending a message about criminal liability for tech cos wrt the last 15 or so years..after all, they are a far from insignificant part of this whole mess and very much to blame for it..

That is an essential degrowth signal for the part of this cancer local to me. It is vital to establish a legal precedent to work as a regulatory check on this kind of rapacious, exploitative and extractive “growth” testing not just the the limits to growth, but finally also completely exhausting human compunction and patience.

[Torchlight]

33. I'm sure the idiots in trump's admin will throw a few meritless "whatabouts" out there

followed by a handful of weak "ifs and buts" to fortify the bastion of their orthodoxies. However there's simply no clear way around it- in the here and now, given the players, the stakes, and the consequences, this was a terrible decision with no measurable advantage and made by a weak man illustrating his inability to think rationally.

[Snackshack]

34. The GOP said...

... this was a crime against humanity back when Saddam set fire to all of his oilwells in Desertstorm.

My guess is the GOP feels differently about it now.