Where Has MineralMan Been?

[MineralMan]

Just in case someone wondered.

Well, a bit of adventure. After doing too many chores the day after catching my wife's cold, I got all weak and clammy. I mentioned that to her and she said, "Lets check something." Then she brought the house's pulse oximeter, something old beings like us have in their houses. So my blood Oxygen percentage was at 84. It stayed there for half an hour, so we got in the car and headed for an Urgent Care clinic operated by our Medicare Advantage Company's medical system.

Next thing I know, I'm in their Emergency Room. Living in a large metro area means our Allina Medical System, which is owned by Aetna, the company from which we have our Advantage Plan. More on that downthread.

From there, an emergency transport vehicle, also from the Allina system hauled me off to one of the largest hospital in Minneapolis, also owned by Allina and the Aetna Insurance company. I was popped into a bed there, in the wing that handles heart and respiratory cases. Some preliminary tests were done immediately. I had been on oxygen the whole time and my oxygen levels had come up. They took away the oxygen and the numbers went right back down.

For the next four days, I was subjected to every sort of scan and test you can imagine. Every part of my 80 year old body was scrutinized. Echo cardiogram, several ultrasound test available, along with more blood and other tests than I could ever have thought possible. I shy inquired about what this was going to cost. "Nothing. You're covered 100%." Again, this is why I have the Aetna Allina Advantage plan. It all gets approval before the testing is performed.

In the end, I have COPD, from many years of smoking. I will smoke no more. Now I'm using Nicotine patches for life. I'll be running through the Allina system's COPD specialty clinic from now on. I got stabilized, got some new meds, and am at home, temporarily with an Oxygen hose following me along. "You'll get rid of most of that before long," I've been told. I'm a little better now, and back at home, resting a lot and taking pills and nebulizer treatments and a little oxygen as needed. "Slow down a little," I was advised. So I will.

The Good News
1. Another of the benefits of all those scans is that nothing was found that is scary. No lung cancer signs. No heart issues. Nothing in my digestive system or lungs, beyond some damage causing the COPD.

2. As the doctor who was supervising that part of the system said, "I don't know how you're getting away with this. If you slow down and do what we prescribe, your decrepit old 80 year old self will probably see you well into your 90s." After I told her that both of my parents lived to be 96, she said, "Well, you got some good genes from them, then. I was surprised that you didn't have any frightening surprises revealed. Lucky man!"

3. Every one who worked in that specialized wing was great. From the experienced doctors to the burka-clad Somali medical assistants, everyone was friendly, helpful and caring. Of course, I followed my father's advice given long ago, "If people are helping you in a bad time, give them your complete respect and keep all of your frustrations hidden. Thank each one, even if what they do hurts. They're caring for you. Be grateful and cooperative always." He was a wise, wise man, I assure you.

My Political Advice and Opinion about Medicare Advantage Programs

Many people curse at those here on DU. Not all of the naysayers offer good information. If you have choices offered to you when selecting one, do as much research as you can. Don't get the $0 premium version. Choose a plan near to the most expensive. You'll be glad you did, I promise. Then, learn how your provider operates, and what facilities and companies they're aligned with. Research those, too, and if you need services, go to the clinics, etc. that have the best reviews. Do this in advance of need. If you must go a few more miles to get to their best clinics, hospitals, etc., you'll be rewarded, as I was.

Don't listen to online naysayers. They are generally uninformed about your local options. Research what is available to you for yourself. It could save your life. Then, do what your medical pros tell you to do. Ask polite questions when you have them, and be patient. It's not always easy, but it's your best route. Treat those who help you as trusted friends. That's what they want to be. Give what you'd like to get.

I just got home yesterday. I'm still moving slowly as I recover. The old Grumpy MineralMan will be back shortly. Meanwhile, I probably won't comment on the replies in this thread as I usually do. I'll probably be resting up for a while longer. But, I wanted to say a few (a bunch) of words about this.

[obamanut2012]

1. Take it easy, man!

Glad you came out of it in one piece.

[Hey Joe]

2. Good for you Man!

Hope you have a complete recovery soon and glad to see you back here!

[angrychair]

3. Glad you're going to be ok MM

Very happy to hear you got good care and sounds like they jumped on it fast, which is also good.

Keep getting better and happy to hear you will be kicking around here for many years to come.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

4. COPD is a pain

Take care of yourself and get well

[malaise]

5. You are one lucky man

Take care of yourself

[mcar]

6. Glad to hear you got good care

That's the most important thing.

[Ocelot II]

7. Good heavens, that sounds scary! Glad they figured out the problem quickly

and established effective treatment (and of course using O2 would also be an excellent deterrent from smoking). Get well, take it easy!

As to your insurance situation - you're right; everyone should research all options carefully. I have regular Medicare along with a supplement I got as a retirement benefit from my old job, and so far it's worked very well for me. We are both very fortunate to have excellent medical resources in this area (my provider is affiliated with the University of Minnesota), so that's also a consideration when deciding what coverage to get.

[Shellback Squid]

8. I "quit" smoking about a month ago, now it's Juul and chantix, I don't really miss cigs and

I am reducing my vaping too...that's when I will consider myself an ex smoker when I am done with the vape
You will appreciate when you no longer spend $10/$14 on them and everything smells better including you

Good on ya!

[underpants]

9. 👍

[MustLoveBeagles]

10. Glad you're on the mend

[CaptainTruth]

11. Wow! Glad to hear you're doing better!

[leftstreet]

12. Hang in there

[calimary]

13. Thanks for this post, MineralMan!

Glad you’re doing better!

[Mollyann]

14. Advantage Plan User here

We have used Kelsey Care Advantage since becoming eligible. My husband and I both have been diagnosed with cancer. He is six years out from his robotic prostate removal and I am over three years out from my right side laparoscopic colonectomy.
Fortunately neither of us have had to undergo radiation or chemo. We receive excellent care and do not need referrals to see a specialist. We are very pleased with the urologists, GI, dermatologists, cardiologists, oncologists, optometrists, audiologists etc. either one or both have seen. The surgeons and hospitals were excellent.

[highplainsdem]

15. I'm so sorry you have COPD, but I'm glad you were able to get such great care so quickly. Please

take it easy and take good care of yourself.

I want to suggest, too, that you check out information on supplements that might help, especially CoQ10, and ask your doctors whether you should take it. Possibly they already recommended it. Just one article about it:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33441012/
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/10.1080/15412555.2020.1849084?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%20%200pubmed#d1e565

Twenty years ago my mom started developing heart failure after fifteen years of other heart problems. I asked her cardiologist at the heart clinic about CoQ10, which I'd read could be helpful for both heart failure and COPD (which she didn't have, despite having been a smoker until she had heart trouble). He approved of her taking it, said other patients of his took it. I asked why he hadn't recommended it and he said something about it not yet being standard enough treatment that the clinic wanted their cardiologists to mention it first to patients. Anyway, Mom recovered from heart failure after taking CoQ10.

She took quite a few supplements, always with her cardiologist and GP's approval. I've never forgotten an appointment where her cardiologist was showing her off to another cardiologist and an intern who had stopped by, explaining how many supplements she was on and how little medication, just one med, a blood thinner - and it was painfully obvious that they weren't interested in hearing about supplements. Mom's cardiologist once mentioned Canadian cardiologists he knew who were doing research on supplements, and he sounded envious.

She lived to 96, like your parents - passed away a few months before what would have been her 97th birthday. She'd had phlebitis in her 30s, failing kidneys in her 40s (supplements helped there, too), and had first developed heart trouble (which runs in the family, including my siblings) at 70.

A diagnosis is not a sentence. Health can almost always be improved. And it helps to have as much information as possible.

[likesmountains 52]

48. Just curious about what supplements helped her kidneys. Thanks

[highplainsdem]

58. A good vitamin B complex with additional choline and inositol, which are two of the B vitamins usually

undersupplied and often completely omitted in most multivitamin and B-complex formulas.

This is going.to be long. Please bear with me - and PLEASE keep in mind that anyone taking any supplement should always get their doctor's okay, and check with both doctor and pharmacist about any possible drug interactions.

And please keep in mind this is just my family's personal experience, though my mom's doctors knew what she was taking and approved and made sure hospitals were told to give her the usual supplements.

I first learned about nutrition from nutritionist Adelle Davis's books, which I first found in health food stores in NYC in the 1970s. Davis's advice on vitamin A for skin problems quickly cleared up skin problems I'd had for years, her advice on high-protein breakfasts got rid of the brain fog I'd had almost every morning, and that was the first year I never caught a cold (probably the vitamin C). I've taken supplements for years - just the basic vitamins and minerals.

My mother had a congenital malformation of the urinary tract, megaureter, that was causing her kidneys to fail in her 40s. She'd been told she would need surgery on both kidneys, but the first surgery had left a huge incision that healed so badly that she refused to have the second. That first surgery hadn't been enough to help, though, and by the time I discovered those books, my mom was in pain every day but still refusing to consider the second kidney surgery.

Davis had written about what she considered the proper ratio of B vitamins. She recommended relatively low amounts of the cheaper B vitamins that were often included in large amounts in multivitamins. And she recommended relatively large amounts of choline and inositol, which as I said are usually in short supply or omitted in both multivitamins and B-complex formulas. Choline in particular was important for kidneys.

Millions of her books had been sold by the 1970s, and she was highly enough respected that a major vitamin company then, Plus brand, marketed an Adelle Davis-approved B formula, 49/49A.

Huh. There's actually one on sale on eBay - https://www.ebay.com/itm/185741993506 - and while I'd advise against anyone buying 50-year-old vitamins and those certainly wouldn't be safe to take, that bottle might look familiar to DUers who shopped in health food stores then. I was hoping to find a photo of the ingredient label so I wouldn't have to type up the info on the ratio of B vitamins she recommended. No such luck.

Anyway, those vitamins helped my mom almost instantly. The pain from her kidneys was gone within a couple of days, and never returned unless she decided to stop taking the vitamins, when it would gradually return and she'd go back on the vitamins and the pain would go away again.

The vitamins kept her kidneys functioning so well despite the remaining megaureter that 40 years later an experienced nephrologist misdiagnosed a scan and believed that megaureter was a large kidney cyst, and the treatment was to drain it. They couldn't figure out why they couldn't completely drain it. And puncturing the ureter caused urine to leak into her abdomen, which led to her needing an ambulance to go back to the hospital that night in shock. Fortunately she recovered and was able to go home the next day. When I asked her GP how in hell the nephrologist could have made that mistake, he said it was unusual enough for her kidneys to be functioning well at her age that no one would have.suspected what looked like a cyst was a megaureter. That wasn't an adequate excuse IMO but I didn't look for a lawyer. I did tell the nephrologist at Mom's followup appointment about the vitamins she took that had kept her kidneys healthy. He was NOT interested in hearing about vitamins.

Plus brand vitamins went out of business in the 1980s. After that my mom had to make do with a B complex that was too low in choline/inositol but she took with an additional choline/inositol supplement.

The proportions of B vitamins Davis recommended, from Let's Eat Right To Keep Fit - also the.amounts in that Plus formula:

If your tablet supplies 2 milligrams of vitamin B1, it should also contain equal amounts, or 2 milligrams, of vitamins B2, B6, and folic acid; approximately 20 times more niacin amide, pantothenic acid, and PABA than B1, or 40 milligrams of each; 500 times more inositol and choline, or 1,000 milligrams of each of these two. I know of no studies of the amount of biotin required. Only 1 to 3 micrograms of.vitamin B12 appear to be needed daily.

There still isn't an RDA for biotin, but there's a recommended adequate intake of 30 mcg for adults. RDA for B12 is 2.4 mcg. I know Plus 49/49A had both but can't recall how much.

Anyway, good luck finding ANY B-complex formula that gets close to that.

For a while after Plus went out of business I could find a B complex containing brewer's rice that was fairly close, and Mom took that with additinal choline/inositol, but then I couldn't find that either.

She finally ended up taking Now brand B-50 tablets, which I'd cut in two, and Now brand choline/inositol capsules, and she'd take half a B-50 and 1 choline/inositol capsule with both breakfast and dinner. I would have preferred to have the exact amounts Davis recommended, but Mom would never have taken all the different tiny fragments of tablets I'd have ended up with if I'd bought tablets of all the different B vitamins and cut them into tiny pieces.

And those Now vitamins kept her kidneys healthy. In total, B vitamins kept her kidneys healthy from 1971 to 2018, when she was 96. They also helped my dad when he had kidney failure about 20 years ago.

[likesmountains 52]

60. THank you so much for your detailed reply.

A lot of good information there! I must be about your same age because I remember Adelle Davis's influence. I was in Boulder then , and very receptive. Thank you again!

[hlthe2b]

16. 'Glad you were appropriately diagnosed, treated and doing much better...

..and even better that you are kicking the cigarettes. Keep the alcohol moderate too and reduce indoor and outdoor pollutants as much as possible (avoid outdoor physical exertion on bad air quality days and if indoor dust or other allergens is an issue, consider HEPA air purifiers in your home. All can help a lot. National Jewish Health is located in Denver (www.nationaljewish.org) --the world renowned center for respiratory diseases-- and I collaborated on a study with them some time ago. While our altitude is a major issue for COPD out here (and Denver's ozone pollution), the other issues mentioned really impact recovery and stabilization.

To your returned good health.

[jmbar2]

17. Glad to hear you are still with us.

Thanks for the update and the useful information on your health insurance. I am bookmarking this for the future, in case I need to reconsider my insurance.

Best wishes for a comfortable recovery. Quitting smoking is a bitch.

[Zackzzzz]

18. One day, in your future, You are going to feel.........GREAT.

IGNORE IT!!!

Don't lift those weights or do sit-ups.

Just sit back, with liquid and music of choice, and say to yourself isn't nice to feel great.
Share that moment with your wife.

I speak from experience.

[FakeNoose]

19. Wow this is a good story with a great ending!

My parents were both heavy smokers for their entire lives, and they both died of cancer. I think my mom showed signs of emphysema but she wasn't diagnosed with it. Breast and lung cancers killed her at 62. My dad lived into his 80's but lung cancer finally got him too. Cigarettes are an awful thing and tobacco is the devil-weed. I'm so glad you've given them up for good.

Best of luck, MineralMan!

[ShazzieB]

42. I agree that tobacco is the devil-weed.

My parents were also lifelong heavy smokers. They managed to escape cancer, but they both had cardiac issues that were were probably caused and definitely aggravated by the smoking, and my mom had COPD as well. My dad made it to 77, which doesn't sound that bad if you don't know that his father lived into his 90s and one of his sisters made it to 101. My mom only made it to 66 before succumbing to congestive heart failure (dad went first, because he was 20 years older). Mom wanted to quit smoking and made many half-hearted attempts, but never succeeded even after the COPD diagnosis.

I hate cigarettes with a passion and love the clean indoor air laws my state passed some time back.

[mountain grammy]

20. Oh MM

Concerned and happy all at once for you, and I have missed you!

Congratulations on quitting. Best thing you’ll ever do, I promise!

[PatSeg]

21. Welcome to the club

Sounds like you are recovering extremely well for an 80 year old! I've been dealing with COPD for many years and now congestive heart failure occasionally too.

I've been surprised at how many body parts have been wearing out in the past few years, sometimes resulting in surgery. So as you recuperate, I am laying on my couch doing the same thing. I think I have a few more years in me, but this can be exhausting.

[Polly Hennessey]

22. Thank you for your post. Good to hear you will soon be

a grumpy old guy again.

My sister is an ICU nurse and some of her stories about how patients treat nurses is troubling. I sent her the quote from your father.

[multigraincracker]

24. My wife is a RN. She's my angel and has

Saved my life a couple of times.

[multigraincracker]

23. Ok Lucky.

I’ve got the best health insurance can’t buy. UAW BC/BS. Have a pacemaker and I jog 3 to 5 miles about 5 days a week at age 76. All my Cardio docs say the same thing keep moving.
Wife has COPD and uses a machete at night and doing well. For anyone deciding on insurance in old age I recommend seeing your local Councilors On Aging. Best advise on what to get.
Hang in there and keep moving.

[hamsterjill]

25. Goodness!!! Bet that was fun! (Not!)

Wishing you all the very best...

[Jedi Guy]

26. Yikes, that must've been scary for you and the missus.

Glad you're doing better now and hope you continue to improve. I always enjoy reading your posts, they're very well thought out and insightful. All the best to you and your wife as you navigate this situation!

[PCIntern]

27. Wow...84...

Your subconscious knew that something was wrong. I’m glad you’re convalescing!

Best,

PC

[greatauntoftriplets]

28. That must have been quite a scare.

Best of luck for your return to health, and giving up smoking.

[niyad]

29. Glad you are still with us, MM. Sending vibes for complete recovery

and healing.

[SimplyHadEnough]

30. Glad you're feeling better.

I always enjoy your posting. Take care of yourself.

[dflprincess]

31. I'm glad you're doing better &:have a handle on things

For what it's worth. I was a heavy smoker & used Chantex to quit, worked way better than the patches ever did for me. However, I did have done awful nausea the first couple weeks but never the vivid dreams. Also never had a craving for a cigarette since.

However you do it, good luck with putting. It's worth the effort.

[pnwmom]

32. I'm very glad you are doing well! But we have Traditional Medicare

with a supplement, and it requires no approvals from the insurer, and everything is covered by the main policy or the supplement. We did carefully research this choice and it fit with our preferences. We and our doctors decide what care we need, not an AI at an insurance company.

This is especially important if you have a rare disease. Unfortunately, you can't know in advance if you'll be one of those people.

[LoisB]

33. I am glad you are back. Continue your road to recovery.

[H2O Man]

34. Feel better/Get better!

Recommended.

[Permanut]

35. So you're good for another 100,000 miles now..

Another 80 year old here, quit smoking 20 years ago after a heart scare. Glad to see you meet this challenge, and glad to see you back here.

[Richluu]

36. Thanks for letting us know!

I'm glad your news us good! Keep healing!

[DeeDeeNY]

37. This is so good to hear!

[lostnfound]

38. I'm so glad you are getting better and received good care when you needed it

[Trueblue Texan]

39. Glad you are back!

Glad you are better! Glad you have good healthcare! Take it easy!

[OldBaldy1701E]

40. I am very glad you are on the mend, MM! (n/t)

[70sEraVet]

41. Glad you're back, MM!!

[madamesilverspurs]

43. So you have a new and shiny COPD Club card. Welcome!

My club card is a bit dog-eared, given that it's 25 years old. The good news is that they keep learning more and passing that info along to us. A couple years into this journey my body gifted me with a paralyzed diaphragm to keep the COPD and sleep apnea company. Along with oxygen, meds, and a few rounds of pulmonary rehab, I'm still here. I graduated from Cpap to Bi-pap just before a new illness started plaguing mostly old folks; they didn't know yet what it was, but I spent about a month relying on the Bi-pap 24/7. Once they put a name on it and testing became available, blood tests confirmed that I'd had covid; my pulmonologist kept a close eye on me, and gave me a direct access phone number to his staff (which I never needed, thank God). I'm still on oxygen, that won't change; but that's a small inconvenience compared to what the outcome might have been. The silver lining was the Bi-pap, without which I'd likely not be here, so there's that.

It was an adjustment being tethered to an oxygen supply, but it really didn't take long to get used to it. Out and about, my portable concentrator does the job (although I have to carefully time my outings as the POC doesn't last that long). My only quibble is with insurance that won't pay for any emergency reserve tanks as backup in case of power outage.

Travel is interesting. It's been a while since I've gone anywhere, but each airline used to have their own rules for bringing POCs along, needed a signed note from my doctor. And going through TSA -- let's just say it wasn't fun when I was required to hand over the machine for them to examine while I went through the Xray. Back in '16 I got stuck overnight at the Denver airport due to a blizzard; had to find someplace to plug in the machine to recharge it and keep me breathing, and with all chairs and most floor space occupied the only available outlet was just outside the men's restroom, where I dozed upright in an airline provided wheelchair. Yippee.

Anyway, you ain't alone in this, as I'm sure you've gathered by now. Please don't hesitate to ask or comment, we're a big club. Glad you got the care you needed!


.

[Maeve]

44. Glad you're ok!

Take care of yourself

[proud patriot]

45. Welcome Back

[MLAA]

46. Wishing you all the best for a quick recovery.

Just fyi, my husband had COPD and required a nebulizer. The on the hospital sent us home with was bulky and very noisy. I ordered a small hand held one on line. It was much quieter and lighter and worked well.

[gademocrat7]

47. Glad you are back home, MineralMan.

Take care.

[AverageOldGuy]

49. PAY ATTENTION TO THE DOC'S INSTRUCTIONS

With COPD, your system reacts differently to oxygen.

I'm an old EMT, ran rescue for 14 years, retired 2 years ago. I was in a rural county where 38% of our population was over 65 and I had a lot of COPD patients.

We do not put COPD patients on more than 6 liters per minute of O2 because anything above that can cause big problems. I never put a COPD patient on more than 4L.

If you feel short of breath, difficulty getting your breath, or chest pains CALL 911 IMMEDIATELY, DO NOT DELAY, DO NOT TELL YOURSELF IT'S NOTHING. Be certain to tell the 911 operator you are COPD patient.

I'm not advertising for them or advocating for them but, especially if you are alone much of the time, look into one of the emergency pendant systems.

The doc should give you instructions about oxygen use, do exactly what doc says.

[Bev54]

50. Wishing you a speedy recovery, I am sorry to hear you have had to go through all this.

[lostincalifornia]

51. Feel better MM

[SWBTATTReg]

52. Ahhh man, going through the tribulation and coming out on top, so to speak. I'm glad you are still kicking and

breathing, and still here to provide all of us your intelligent take on topics of the day, as well as those off-the-wall comedy tidbits we see from you sometimes. Hope you and your wife make full and complete recoveries.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

53. You are quite a valuable mineral-

A precious gem of a man.

[Bettie]

54. Glad you are feeling better

and that your Advantage experience has been good, you are fortunate in that.

[rzemanfl]

55. Here I was worried

that I offended you with my choice of reading material.

I feel I must mention that I chewed nicotine gum for quite a few years. When I needed surgery for a herniated disc I was told that I could not have it until I was free of nicotine for six weeks. I had to pass a test to prove it. You probably should get off of nicotine.

Get well soon.

[Cha]

56. You are Lucky with your excellent genes,

and immune system, MineralMan!🍀☮️🍀

I view your experience as a cautionary tale, too.

Don't smoke.. and if you do.. Please Stop. Mahalo!

I smoked for a couple of years in the 70s, and so grateful I stopped when I did!

[mr715]

57. Feel better. We need you.

[bdamomma]

59. MineralMan

Thank goodness you're okay. You're a tough guy!!!! Easy does it, get a little stronger each day.

Good to have you back on DU!!!

[MIButterfly]

61. Dear MineralMan

I'm glad to see you back and I hope you feel better and stronger everyday.

I'm also glad to see you advising people to do the research when it comes to Medicare plans. It's important for people to explore all their options carefully. I, myself, have traditional Medicare with a supplemental plan. I'm glad your Medicare Advantage plan is working out so well for you.

Please take good care of yourself.

All my best,
MIButterfly 🦋