What, exactly, makes Platner's skull and crossbones Nazi?

[LAS14]

I've asked this in at least one thread, but got no answer. It's a real question. How does one know that his particular skull and crossbones belongs to the Nazis?

Note: I believe Platner when he says he didn't know. I'm just curious about how anyone could know.

[MineralMan]

1. Well, it has been tattooed over now, so I can't see it.

It's a pretty common tattoo, really. Yes, the Nazis used it, but so have many others. I believe he was a young guy in the Marines when he got the tattoo.

There's so much bullshit circulating about all this that it's now impossible to sort it out.

The Primary election in Maine is Tuesday. We'll find out who the Democratic candidate there is on Wednesday.

Vote for Democrats!

[FalloutShelter]

2. A marine who served with GP

Came out and commented something like…We were 21 drunk and got tattoos that we thought looked cool.. end of story.
There was no Nazi identification intended.

Also… the woman who is accusing GP worked as social media manager for the Heritage Foundation for years and helped convince Collin’s to vote for Kavenaugh.

BTW Susan Collin’s was having an affair with a man whose wife was dying of cancer and she is now married to him so … not Snow White. this is nothing but a rat fuck.

[DoBW]

12. Collins klanners

want to smear platner

[karynnj]

13. I've seen claims about Susan Collins, but full information is not available

Collins and her husband have known he other since she was a 21 year old college senior he, as CoS to Senator Cohen, hired her as an intern. https://washingtonmonthly.com/2012/08/13/sen-collins-marries-friend-mentor/.

There is nothing on when he received his divorce. Looking on the internet, one possibility is that they were at least separated years before his marriage to Collins. In her obituary, it mentions that when she retired, date not specified, she moved from the DC area to Maine to be closer to an autistic son, who died in 2009. It is certainly, possible that they maintained two homes and the marriage was still intact. https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/mainetoday-pressherald/name/margot-daffron-obituary?id=20447049. Here is the son's obituary.https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/mainetoday-pressherald/name/thomas-daffron-obituary?id=23930907

Not knowing anything other than these three Google finds, it seems that this could be a very complicated situation. Clearly the media protected Collins. From the obituaries, it sounds like the wife stayed home with the children, including one who was non verbal and autistic for decades.

He married Susan Collins in August 2012. His first wife died after a two year cancer fight in July 2013. No date is given for their divorce.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

3. The SS totenkopf looks different than a typical pirate "skull and bones."

The skull is fatter than anatomy dictates, and is almost in a three-quarter view, sitting on bones that are shown shorter than in a Jolly Roger. It's a pretty recognizable look, especially for anyone who does more than a cursory reading of the history of WWII.

[SocialDemocrat61]

6. Better pic

[mainer]

4. Everyone I've asked (we're all over 60) didn't recognize it as SS

And some of them had parents who were in occupied Europe.

Are we all expected to be WWII historians?

[lapucelle]

10. It could well be that the self-described "military buff" accidently had a Nazi tattoo for 20 years

and that the self-described communist accidentally dated a "lifelong GOP operative" for two years.

It also could well be that the character marketed as a working class everyman forgot that he went to a five-figure-a-year-tuition prep school, that he forgot that his grandfather was an internationally renowned architect whose furniture designs sill sell for multi-thousands, that his parents both bought him a business and gave him a *loan* that allowed him to pay cash for his house, and that it slipped his mind that his oyster farm is located on a wealthy friend's private island when he told CNN that "he has never been close to money".

[Cha]

64. Excellent post, lapuelle... Mahalo!! Just the Facts.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

68. Great post

[lapucelle]

69. It's bewildering that Platner told CNN that he has never been "close to money" given his personal biography.

Is not understanding how working class and middle class folks actually live a common occurrence among the financially privileged?

[QueerDuck]

71. Many thanks. Indeed it could be any one or all of those things.

[AloeVera]

33. Someone's done their oppo research...

Interesting.

Don't know if any of it is true or not. I wonder though about the sources, I doubt they're from our side. I also wonder why some people are such Never-Platners that they don't seriously weigh the consequences of playing into the hands of GQP rat*******. Or why his defeat would be more important than winning the Senate.

Please don't tell me Mills or the other guy could win - I'd only have a bitter laugh to respond with.

[lapucelle]

49. It was a dupe. N/T

[sarisataka]

22. That some people do not recognize a symbol does not change the historical fact of the symbol.

Just because someone had parents who were in occupied Europe doesn't mean they know the same things as their parents. If you could ask their parents you would probably get a different answer.

I can easily find a dozen non-historians who would immediately recognize the Nazi Totenkopf.

[LAS14]

51. But if the person with the tatoo did not recognize it as a historical symbol, that's super relevant. nt

[regnaD kciN]

66. Yes. Certain images are recognizably Nazi-based...

…such as the swastika, the Iron Cross, and the double-lightning bolt “SS” logo. But this particular one isn’t that well-known. I guess, if you’re a devotee of WWII history, you’d be able to identify it, but I doubt many average people would.

[lapucelle]

5. What makes the design Nazi is that the SS used this design as their insignia

on uniforms and banners.

===================================


SS Nazi Totenkopf




======================================


Pirate Jolly Roger




===============================

[GreenWave]

29. Hey everybody, he's topless! What a naughty man.

[Cha]

65. Thanks for showing the Difference so Vividly..

The OP asked the question; you have the answers.

[Emile]

7. The tattoo looks like the State of Ohio now,

so only people (not you) who keep slinging mud are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[QueerDuck]

72. The molehill is the tattoo. The mountain is ...

...pretending, denying and feigning ignorance for nearly 20 years.

[oldmanlynn]

8. I can see two young marines in a different country that are a little bit drunk or tipsy

Going and getting a tattoo and picking a particular tattoo skull and crossbones, and that didn’t necessarily mean that that was because they were exposing some Nazi ideology

[EX500rider]

15. I can too....but having it for almost 20 years without knowing what it was I believe less..ymmv

[oldmanlynn]

18. It's not like he's running on the resurgence of the Nazi party

He seems to be speaking out about things just like the rest of us do so I’m not as concerned about what he did 30 years ago or 20 years ago and more about what he is today. I also want him to beat Susan Collins and give us another senator. That is the most important thing.

[EX500rider]

19. I am concerned if he knew what it was and then flat out lied that he did, that speaks to character IMO

I believe 2 of his friends have said he did know what is was and I have trouble believing you could have it for almost 20 years and not know.

[The Bopper]

70. Is it

You're actually concerned or Susan Collins concerned?

[WarGamer]

9. He didn't have a jolly rogers tattoo lol

He had a Nazi Germany SS Totenkopf logo

https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/totenkopf

"Totenkopf" is German for "death's head" or skull and typically refers to a skull-and-crossbones image. During the Nazi era, Hitler's Schutzstaffel (SS) adopted one particular Totenkopf image as a symbol. Among other uses, it became the symbol of the SS-Totenkopfverbande (one of the original three branches of the SS, along with the Algemeine SS and the Waffen SS), whose purpose was to guard the concentration camps. Many original members of this organization were later transferred into and became the core of a Waffen SS division, the 3rd SS "Totenkopf" Panzer Division, which engaged in a number of war crimes during World War II.

Following the war, neo-Nazis and other white supremacists resurrected the Totenkopf as a hate symbol because of its importance to the SS and it has been a common hate symbol since. It is this particular image of a skull and crossbones that is considered a hate symbol, not any image of a skull and crossbones.

there were slight variations because 80 years ago, no digital files etc...





https://prnt.sc/yDvEtKTfbk1-

[Scrivener7]

54. Do you believe he knew that?

[EX500rider]

14. Be cause it was a Nazi tattoo?

And having it for almost 20 years leads me to 2 conclusions, he knew what it was (and friends have said he did) and left it there until called out about it and lied that he knew or he was too stupid to know he had a SS tattoo (not just any SS but the Death Camp guards tattoo), neither a good look IMO ymmv

[MorbidButterflyTat]

42. Ewww

That's unflattering.

[EX500rider]

43. And who takes their shirt off at an indoor party anyway?

Usually it's like a drunk frat boy type of behavior

[MorbidButterflyTat]

67. I thought the same thing.

Kegger at a strip club, maybe.

[Emile]

16. The Maltese cross is often confused with the Nazi Iron Cross too.

Doesn't matter anyways. Platner's tattoo now looks like the State of Ohio.

[ColoringFool]

57. No, It Is Not. EVER. THERE IS NO RESEMBLANCE.

Maltese cross - Wikipedia https://share.google/rO9rjqOFAJnsMcL4F

Where are the bent "arms"?

[Emile]

59. Both crosses share a similar cross pattee

shape, which can lead to misidentification. Additionally, the Iron Cross was appropriated by the Nazis, overshadowing its original meanings and causing some to mistakenly associate it with the Maltese Cross.

Maltese Cross

[eShirl]

17. as a kid I remember seeing it on cheap belt buckles and rings in Johnson Smith Catalog

I thought it was a biker symbol

found it thanks to archive.org
https://archive.org/details/JohnsonSmithsFunCatalog7921979/page/n87/mode/2up

[EX500rider]

20. That is a skull & cross bones, the Totenkopf has the bones behind the skull

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_SS_Panzer_Division_Totenkopf

[sarisataka]

21. Do you have your answer?

[LAS14]

35. Yup! It's clear that most people would not recognize it as Nazi. nt

[sarisataka]

36. It seems a pretty even split.

It saddens me that such comparatively recent history has been so easily forgotten.

But to your question- do you see how it was the symbol of the SS and why therefore it is a Nazi symbol?

[EdmondDantes_]

38. Except that's not the question you asked

You asked what makes it a nazi tattoo. People have provided evidence of what makes it different from a jolly rogers tattoo.

You can argue he didn't know what it was, and there's some evidence for that in taking his shirt off in front of Jewish family members. But he's also a military historian and WWII was a pretty big event in military history so you can argue he at least should have known. I don't know if he knew, but it absolutely was a tattoo of a totenkopf.

[LAS14]

52. The thread has gone astray. My post here was not relevant to my OP. nt

[EdmondDantes_]

58. The person you responded to asked if you had your answer

You responded with that half the people didn't recognize a totenkopf. I'm not sure how you think the question which you responded to wasn't on the original topic.

[orangecrush]

23. As an amateur radio operator...

We are nerds, but we are cool



?w=1480

[SamuelTheThird]

24. It's overblown

Ive seen very much non-nazi musicians wear hats with the totenkopf etc

[Mossfern]

25. Besides the tattoo in question

Is there anything else in his past that would make one think that he's a Nazi sympathizer?

[no_hypocrisy]

26. Doesn't make him a pirate?

[RandySF]

27. The Totenkopf

Totenkopf" is German for "death's head" or skull and typically refers to a skull-and-crossbones image. During the Nazi era, Hitler's Schutzstaffel (SS) adopted one particular Totenkopf image as a symbol. Among other uses, it became the symbol of the SS-Totenkopfverbande (one of the original three branches of the SS, along with the Algemeine SS and the Waffen SS), whose purpose was to guard the concentration camps. Many original members of this organization were later transferred into and became the core of a Waffen SS division, the 3rd SS "Totenkopf" Panzer Division, which engaged in a number of war crimes during World War II.

Following the war, neo-Nazis and other white supremacists resurrected the Totenkopf as a hate symbol because of its importance to the SS and it has been a common hate symbol since. It is this particular image of a skull and crossbones that is considered a hate symbol, not any image of a skull and crossbones.



https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/totenkopf

[LetMyPeopleVote]

28. The tattoo really pesters me

I have seen a great deal on this. This is just one example that Collins would use against Platner in a general election campaign.

Link to tweet

I have seen some other oppo that pesters me including the material on this thread.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

30. The totenkopf tattoo is a NAZI symbol

[-misanthroptimist]

31. What, exactly, makes Platner's skull and crossbones Nazi?

Wishful thinking and coincidence.

Nazis also wore hats, ate sausage, slept at night, drove cars, etc.

[EX500rider]

44. The fact that it was the official emblem of the Nazi SS death camp guards?

[-misanthroptimist]

45. Great. Is that the only place in history it appears?

Was the use of that symbol by Nazis generally known by most people? Was it known by Platner at the time he got the tattoo? If the answer to either of those questions is anything other than "yes", then the whole issue is irrelevant.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

32. Totenkoph is German meaning Deaths Head. It was the official symbol of the Nazi SS.

Link to tweet

People need to realize it was not just a Nazi tattoo or swastika.
It is a Totenkopf.
Totenkoph is German meaning Deaths Head. It was the official symbol of the Nazi SS.

[mike_c]

34. the skull and bones have been a potent human motif...

...since pre-history. The German SS was only one context among thousands of others. I don't get too upset about it appearing in tattoos unless the nazi allusion is unambiguous.

[meadowlander]

37. All the Nazis that used to wear it on their uniform?

You can plead historical ignorance. You can't say it's not a Nazi symbol.

[Emile]

61. Is this a Nazi symbol

[meadowlander]

62. Yes, it's an iron cross which was worn on Nazi uniforms. Is it exclusively a Nazi symbol? No.

It's been used a number of other contexts, like the swastika, and then adopted and made infamous by the Nazis. It's one of many symbols used by the Nazis but not exclusively a symbol of the Nazis.

The particular style of Totenkopf that Platner had tattooed of his chest was designed for SS uniforms and has never been significantly associated with any other purpose.

[Emile]

63. It's a Maltese Cross. I should know,

I spent a whole month in Valletta, Malta in 1969. They sold these crosses all over the island country.

[Blue Full Moon]

39. Most 20 yr olds would not have a clue.

Especially when drunk. More like pirates.

[ColoringFool]

40. He Knew. Of Course, Maybe The Tattoo Artist Was A Republican Who.....

Decided not to inform him. 😆😆😆😆😆

3rd SS Panzer Division Totenkopf - Wikipedia https://share.google/zaXd3qKiUJyWXSsuE

[Blue Full Moon]

41. All of this BS is just republican smear campaign

Those who are keeping this going are helping the republican smear campaign. I thought that this site wasn't supposed to spread right wing propaganda.

[LisaL]

46. A smear campaign would be claiming he had a Nazi tattoo when he didn't.

Since he actually had a Nazi tattoo, then it's not a smear campaign.

[Blue Full Moon]

60. Nope they get other people to believe it

[BH liberal]

47. The range of motivations of those who would adopt that symbol...

would be, at the most benign, an adoption of a "tough guy" label by those who need it to bluff others. At the most malignant, it would identify an individual or group dedicated to mass murder. Platner was likely closer to the benign end of the scale than the malignant, but to excuse him on the possibility that it was only youthful foolishness, ignorance or immature poor judgment is probably a mistake. He still has the symbol on his chest even though he could have had it removed. What species of older fool would keep it once he decided to go into politics?

[eShirl]

55. no he doesn't still have it, he had a celtic dog design tattooed over it, covering it up

I wish people would stop repeating that misinformation.

[Initech]

48. This is the most non issue of non issues.

We can't let Rupert Murdoch steal the senate again. Donny and his goons need to be fired. This Graham Platner stuff is another Murdoch manufactured distraction.

[BH liberal]

50. The mentality of a guy...

who would get that tattoo at any age is suspect.

[YepYep]

53. I don't know, but.....

I bought an Irish Celtic cross belt buckle, because I am Irish-American. However it’s a short armed cross, which I found out later is a white supremist co-opted symbol. ((Sigh))

[ColoringFool]

56. If I May Hazard A Wild Guess? The NAZIS!.......

THE NAZIS MADE IT A NAZI SYMBOL‼️

Please read this post in Sam Kinison's voice. TIA!