re: Platner - But if personal imperfection disqualifies a candidate, Washington DC should empty itself immediately.

[Swede]

Oliver Kornetzke-

The same apparatus pearl-clutching over Platner right now protected people who voted for catastrophic wars, wrote healthcare bills with the insurance industry at the table, watched wages and housing and rural life rot for 40 years while calling it responsible governance, and still hasn’t managed to hold Donald Trump, his administration, or the Epstein client list of child-fucking sex traffickers accountable for a single goddamn thing. Apply the standard universally or admit you’re not applying a standard. You’re protecting a class. A class with a documented 40-year track record of delivering for billionaire donors and not working class people.

What Platner offers that no DNC substitute can: an attacking theory of the race. Not “we are the reasonable alternative.” Not “we respect the institutions Collins disrespects.” An actual argument with teeth and with real historical weight about power: who has it, who bought it, who writes themselves into every bailout, every crisis, every legislative fix. Who gets called when the bill is being drafted. Who gets thanked in the press release after it passes. Platner can make Collins the face of a rotting system rather than a politician with whom Democrats merely have a personnel dispute. That is a different campaign and a harder one to run against.
The DNC model asks voters to trust the people who already have power. Platner’s model asks voters to take it back.
Democrats don’t need another fucking candidate who reassures billionaire donors that nothing fundamental will change. They need one who can convince voters that something finally might.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/14jrNh36ubA/

[Lovie777]

1. Starting with the WH....................

[rzemanfl]

2. Waiting for the count to chime in.

I can predict what will be said.

On edit, did not have to wait long.

[Intractable]

4. I didn't want to disappoint you.

[rzemanfl]

6. Not the one I had in mind, but thanks.

[QueerDuck]

5. Oh fun! Can I play? I can "predict" the dismissals, excuses, ignoring of historical facts and attacking the messenger.

[ExtraGriz]

47. Wish I can RECd you unlimited times

Wonder if they will continue their bs after he wins the senate seat.

[eShirl]

94. It's a given.

[dalton99a]

3. A dirty fighter is better than a saint. Democrats should not disqualify anyone without a felony conviction.

[TBF]

13. Really good point - and republicans don't even care

about the felonies.

Go do your thing, Maine dems. Pick the candidate you think can carry Maine, and we will all support.

[dalton99a]

15. +1. Democrats should rid themselves of the self-inflicted purity virus and learn to say "SO WHAT"

Stop judging candidates on the strengths of their purity and virtue, but their willingness to fight for the greater good

Because oftentimes you will find that people are not that pure and virtuous

[BComplex]

44. Graham Platner

Commercial media trying, with all their might, to trash candidates who want to get big money corruption out of elected offices! Graham Platner speaks for the vast majority of people on both sides of the aisle.

Let the money obsessed get rich without buying politicians, and we'll see how rich they are afterwards.

[Horseshoeluck]

14. A dirty fighter.....

That would make a good bumper sticker, imho
Or just the second sentence would be good too.

[ColoringFool]

45. Um . WHAT?! "A dirty fighter is better than a saint" BECAUSE??

Never heard that one before.

Gotta love your low bar, though. 🙄

[EdmondDantes_]

7. A counter point

Platner's past actions can give women, minorities, Jewish people, gays, and people with disabilities the feeling that nothing is changing. He's still a white guy who has blamed women for rape and been abusive towards women. He's made casual comments that diminish black people. He uses retarded as a slur. He's an admitted fan of a guy who has claimed Israel killed JFK and Charlie Kirk. He was still using gay as a slur long after that was dropped from the public discourse.

His rhetoric does support one style of change on an economic level, and that's good, but he shows an all too common continuation of leaving behind those who aren't cishet white guys. Brushing past those concerns isn't satisfying the concerns. We know that minorities, particularly minority women are the backbone of the party. Is it really progress to keep centering straight white guys (I am one, but I know I don't need to be centered constantly).

[Ritabert]

9. Maine has had perfectly good candidates in the past ...

...and still elected "Concerned" Collins. If this guy brings in independents it will be good.

[SamuelAdams]

11. What makes you think he will bring in independents?

Look at all the baggage already. How much more is out there?

[mr715]

19. Because polling.

[W_HAMILTON]

25. The last Democrat to challenge Collins led in all the polls...

...except the only one that actually mattered: Election Day. Source: https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/senate/general/2020/maine/collins-vs-gideon

Who's to say Platner's polling is any different?

[mr715]

26. As I said in other polls, so perhaps we should just grieve.

[W_HAMILTON]

27. Or elect a better Democrat? This is still the primary, after all.

[TBF]

31. OK, who do you suggest? I found this on ballot ready

(I am a Texan - go Talarico! So I had to search for Maine).

Here we are:

U.S. Senate - Maine
Primary
Candidates
David Allen Costello(D)
Graham C. Platner(D)
Janet Mills(D)
Susan M. Collins(R)


So, who is David Allen Costello? Does he have any supporters? My understanding is that Janet Mills suspended her campaign.

What should Maine democrats do? We've got until tomorrow to figure this out

[W_HAMILTON]

33. If it were up to me, i would vote for Mills.

She's a strong and reliable Democrat and I have no doubt she will be a strong and reliable Democratic vote in the Senate.

If everyone that says we must vote for Platner so we can beat Collins actually believes that, they would do the same for Mills (or any other Democrat) and we would get the same result except with a less problematic and more reliable candidate.

[mr715]

37. Much like Speaker Gideon, a stalwart Democrat who lost.

Gov. Mills is neither strong nor reliable anymore. She could not run her campaign, so give it up.

Or, as I expect, come at me with some snide comment about how I am somehow applying purity tests.

[W_HAMILTON]

48. Platner, this alleged """fighter,""" has never even been in an election to lose.

I'm not sure how that is the flex you seem to think it is.

As I've pointed out to those who wanted change this past election: change doesn't mean better.

[mr715]

51. So support Susan Collins. Just own it. Don't keep shoveling this

[TBF]

61. Except that we are a day before the election

and Mills suspended her campaign in April!

Therefore, I really think we are seeing last minute shenanigans from the right wing, who are very worried that Platner is a strong candidate against Collins.

Best wishes to Mainers, as they go to the polls tomorrow to wrap this up.

[W_HAMILTON]

67. She's still on the ballot, as is at least one other alternative.

And every single one of Platner's many recent scandals have been self-inflicted: the Reddit posts, the Nazi tattoo, the sexting, etc.

[mr715]

71. 76% Platner, 10% Mills

A potential resounding humiliation for a sitting governor.

[Emile]

32. Are you saying Sara Gideon wasn't?

[W_HAMILTON]

36. Gideon wasn't what?

I said we should nominate a better Democrat than Platner.

That doesn't mean we will automatically win the general -- see last election -- but it does put us in the best position to do so.

[Emile]

38. LOL

We found the better candidate. Time to stop this infighting, and embrace the poll leader.

[mr715]

40. But our candidate might have a penis.

PURITY TEST!!

[W_HAMILTON]

50. The primary hasn't even occurred yet.

And unlike many of Platner's biggest supporters, once the primary is over and we have our nominee, I won't continue to criticize him the way they did less flawed Democratic nominees in much more consequential elections.

But the primary has not yet occurred and voters can still decide to vote for a better Democrat.

[mr715]

53. Devote time to taking down Collins rather than staying silent.

[mr715]

39. Implicit in your argument is that we lose with Platner.

Which again, let's just grieve.

[W_HAMILTON]

49. No, implicit in YOUR argument is that we win with Platner.

[mr715]

52. All I hear is sound and fury signifying nothing.

[questionseverything]

10. 90% of what you say is your incorrect interpretation of life in general

The other 10 % republican talking points, i just have to remember this supposedly ends with the primary

[EdmondDantes_]

17. Of course you do

But somehow I don't remember Republicans being concerned with women, minorities, gays, and disabled people. Can you please provide examples? Or maybe you could try reading about intersectionality to understand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality

You not liking what I have to say doesn't make me incorrect or right wing. It doesn't say much for you that all you have are insults rather than engaging with facts, citations and critical thinking. But whatever lies let you sleep at night.

[niyad]

12. THANK YOU!!!

[AloeVera]

20. I hope you will never be judged by a selective, agenda-driven gotcha of your past words and actions.

Or suffer character assassination and villification based on the "testimony" of a well-coached, experienced GQP operative and Heritage Foundation employee. A "Lady for Kavanaugh" who maligned Christine Ford talking about lack of respect for women....

I wouldn't want what was done to Platner to happen to anyone else.

Now you have a problem with cishet white guys running as Democrats? I look forward to you applying the same standard to every Democrat running in future, but I think I might be disappointed. What will be the objection tomorrow - Platner's beard?

I wonder if you read the o/p link in full? Do you think it's possible that the pile-on by so many across party lines might have to do with the view that Platner is a threat to the political orthodoxy and the power of those who've snatched it away from the people? That he wants to create a movemement to change the system itself, to work for ordinary people, and not just manage it better - so they get a few crumbs?

[EdmondDantes_]

35. Weird that you claim to be against selective agenda driven gotcha while being selective yourself

See you only mentioned 1 of the 3 ex girlfriends, you don't mention the other 2 who were Democrats. Also pretending his problems were long ago doesn't account for him sexting on his wife, using retarded as a slur, being a big fan of an antisemitic conspiracy nut, and behaving poorly towards women in just the last 5 years. That's not long ago. What's the demonstrated evidence he's not who he was and at times continues to be? If a Republican had a nazi tattoo for 20 years would you believe it was just an innocent mistake?

And how exactly is accounting for things he's said and done character assassination? Please be explicit in your definition of how pointing out his red flags fits this definition. Is it character assassination to say Trump is a corrupt criminal or is that simply part of who he is?

And no I don't have an issue with cishet white guys running. I have a problem with this particular one because he has a long history of problems of being exclusionary towards minorities. I have no problem with my cishet white guy senator Ed Marley. Jon Ossoff, good. I literally explained why I don't think he's going to do what he says for groups who aren't cishet white guys because of his own actions. Likewise, are you sure you aren't being just as selective as you accuse me of being in how you're interpreting what he has to say as evidence he will be good for everyone?

At least I provided specifics examples of where I think he's been repeatedly exclusionary of many groups via his words and actions.

[mr715]

42. Robert Byrd...

I believe he eventually got absolution.

Bill Clinton is certainly popular here, despite his problematic relationships with his staff.

John Edwards was once quite popular here.


There are plenty of imperfect people that are good Democrats. That are better than Susan Collins.

Would you vote for former klansman Robert Byrd in West Virginia if he were running against, say, Jim Justice?

[EdmondDantes_]

63. Robert Byrd had actions that demonstrated his change

He worked to integrate the capital police, he hired one of the first black congressional aides.

Yes he was deeply problematic at multiple points in his career, but he had demonstrable actions. What has Platner done? And Byrd drew controversy during many portions of his career for his slow evolution on racism.

We're better off without men like Bill Clinton who abused his power on multiple occasions. Not just with Lewinsky but there's allegations as a college professor too.

And now Bill Clinton has been largely sidelined because of his behavior. That's called growth. We should expect better of people today than we did 30 years ago.

You might recall posting that polls show Platner ahead as an example of what the people of Maine want. Ignoring that polls are sometimes wrong, wouldn't that say that in 1952 when Byrd was first elected to Congress and being a klansman was part of that, it was a demonstration of what the voters wanted? Are we unable to criticize as a result? Or to use your example, shouldn't you not criticize Jim Justice because that's clearly what the voters in West Virginia want?

If my choice of options was Jim Justice or an unreformed Byrd, I'm not voting for either because they both suck too much to overlook. If it was reformed Byrd, I'm voting for Byrd but both holding him responsible on the areas he hasn't reformed and working to get a better candidate. But you're skipping right past the reformed part because you want to believe. I want evidence because it's easy to say you've changed and I've been lied to by far too many people who know what they are supposed to say but stop there to believe someone has changed if they don't demonstrate through actions. What did he do on the Sullivan planning board which is his only small d democratic public service (yes he was in the military and the national guard, but that's more doing what you're told)? What was his impact on the Acadia Action group that he was involved with? The former all I see is something about slowing big fields of solar arrays while supporting rooftop solar which seems a reasonable position, but not inherently outstanding position, and nothing more than he was involved with the Acadia Action group. Seems like there should be something concrete in that.

Maybe Platner wins and is everything you believe he will be. That would be great. Maybe he wins and his past (and some of his recent stuff) isn't as gone as you think and that will suck. More likely he lands somewhere in the middle.

[mr715]

64. So, to be clear, you WOULD vote for former klansman Robert Byrd

Contingent upon his personal growth and improvement.


Check check.

[EdmondDantes_]

86. That you failed to point to where Platner has demonstrated that growth and improvement is weird

You missed that rather important point. So I'll ask again. What is the evidence that Platner has changed from literally during this campaign when he said he's a big fan of a guy who thinks Israel killed JFK and Charlie Kirk and used retarded as a slur. What practical stuff has he done to grow from that other than saying he learned from things? If he learned to respect women more than when he was saying they are responsible for rape, why didn't he respect multiple women up to 2021 to not be threatening to them, why was he sexting people outside his marriage more recently?

These aren't meant to be trick questions or gotcha questions. It should be simple to point to things he's done that demonstrate these things. But instead you resort to presenting convoluted theoretical arguments and declare victory by not actually reading what I said or at least not acknowledging it.

[mr715]

88. I'm not his confessor.

I'll level with you and say that beyond the right talking words, I can't offer you a whole lot because Platner has not been in a position to deliver on campaign promises.

But I'll take it over Susan Collins, enthusiastically. I'll extend grace.

[AloeVera]

59. I have responded in other threads and replies to you, as you know

Seems a waste of my time. You have entrenched views about purity. So - one last time, one last response to you.

The Democratic exes (one being anonymous and a self-proclaimed Democrat) did not present any assertions of abuse. I don't mention them because I had hoped by now you'd agree that there is no "there there". The anyonymous one said she was collateral damage in a world that is his. That's it. She describes perfectly how I felt after a bad break-up with a non-abusive man. The other ex said Platner showed up drunk at her house but "declined to elaborate" if anything bad happened. She said that Platner's posts reminded her that he "disrespects women". Her opinion only, which we are to take at face value as she presented no examples, incidents, evidence.

I don't judge people based on Reddit posts 13 years ago during a dark period in their life and that I feel have been mischaracterized anyway and certainly don't translate that into how he's going to vote on issues affecting minorities and the vulnerable. I can't believe anyone would give more weight to them than to what he is saying today, after overcoming an addiction and receiving treatment for PTSD. I believe in redemption arcs, I've seen it for myself. Perhaps you don't or have not experienced it. But it seems to me insisting that people can't change is a pretty rigid view of human nature.

I don't bother with people's personal lives, it is between he and his wife and they seem to have worked it out.

If a Republican had a Totenkopf tattoo, I would wonder why any fascist Republican wouldn't just get a swastika instead. Not the case with Platner, who even in his Reddit days renounced fascism and called himself a "supersoldier for Antifa".

If rushing to call someone a racist, misogynist, rape apologist and a Nazi, anti-semite (I have seen all of these, on various threads) based on scant, misinterpreted or non-existent evidence is NOT character assassination, then I don't know what is.

I think we've reached the end of our exchanges. Primary is tomorrow and we will find out just how successful the attacks on him were. Either way, attacks on him will cease either because of the TOS or because they've accomplished what they set out to do.

[EdmondDantes_]

87. That's an opinion based on what you desperately want to believe

You also have yet to point out anything he's done that demonstrates personal change. That's not a trick question. It shouldn't be difficult to answer. But none of you can or have.

If you want to believe, that's fine. I'm someone who needs evidence because words are cheap. You haven't presented an argument other than what amounts to "I don't believe his entire life up until today represents who he is". You can be as exasperated as you want with me, but you should at least be honest that you haven't done anything more than that. And that's what exasperates me. As someone who has changed, who went to therapy and does the work to show my values through my life, it rings incredibly hollow that he doesn't have anything his supporters can point to.

You diminish what the women in his life have said. Abusive behavior isn't just slapping someone around. I'm sorry you don't get that. And yes it is abusive when you take your emotional damage out on a partner. That's not even a difficult position to take.

But we also disagree that expecting someone be be actually accountable for their history is an attack. Is it an attack when we call Trump a criminal? You see what some of us are saying as an attack because you want it to be. Just like you want to think I have a purity hang up. Everyone is flawed. But when I ask for evidence, I get intentional misrepresentations of it was a long time ago, or it was just one woman and I'll dismiss the others, how was a military history buff to know he had a nazi tattoo, etc. Those are excuses. It's the same flimsy nonsense people use when they try to pass off the Franken problems as being just a creepy picture he took of a Republican and ignore 7 other women. It's not that scary to be honest I promise.

[jmbar2]

22. If Costello were running against Collins, instead of Platner, who would you vote for?

The argument is that only Platner can defeat Collins. Costello, the other democrat running, has an impressive resume. In a theoretical match, would Democrats vote for Costello or Collins if Platner wasn't running?

David Costello's experience:

David, worked his way through the University of Maine, George Washington University, and the London School of Economics. And who served for more than 30 years in senior-level government and non-government positions, both in the United States, including in Maine, and abroad – implementing and managing; not simply legislating or talking about complex multi-million-dollar programs and operations.

Programs and operations that included working closely with U.S. Army, the United Nations, and foreign aid organizations overseas – and various state and local government agencies, businesses, and non-governmental organizations in Maine, Maryland, and elsewhere.

Programs and operations that resulted in: elections, campaign finance, and motor vehicle safety reforms in Maine; improved public schools and expanded assistance to children, youth and families at risk in Baltimore; the implementation of ambitious job creation, education, healthcare, crime eduction, and environmental protection programs in Maryland; and the completion of more than 4,000 peace and community building projects in conflict-torn Cambodia, Haiti, Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo, and Serbia.

https://www.costelloforsenate.com/candidate-contrast
​

[questionseverything]

55. He is polling at 3% so evidently they don't want to vote for him

[jmbar2]

62. The question is...

IF he were the main candidate, would democrats vote for him, or concede to Collins?

[mr715]

65. Impossible to answer.

If pigs could fly I'd carry an umbrella.

If he were the only candidate, I suppose he'd get support. But he isn't gaining traction which suggests a bad campaign apparatus.

[jmbar2]

66. OK, so Platner's probably going to be the candidate. But...

(Still trying to understand the sentiment here... )

- Platner is a fiery speaker, and supports Dem positions. However, he has baggage, and no experience in office.

- Costello supports the same positions, has a lot of experience and a good reputation. But he is has been eclipsed by Platner in the polls. Democrats would likely support either candidate vs Collins. Vote blue, no matter who.

Aside from current polls, what makes Platner the best candidate? I like what he says, mostly.

What is his track record advocating for the people? What has he done?

[mr715]

68. There is campaign activity

Platner has campaigned all over Maine, nonstop. He has had town halls and reached out to voters.

So, he has an established credibility in the electorate.

The leadership in the Senate had to wring Mills' arm to get in, so she got in pretty late when opinions were already ossifying. She was perceived as the strongest candidate because she has a record, she has no scandals, she has unlimited name recognition.

The dynamic set up was an insurgent v. establishment politician, not progressive v. moderate.

As such, as Mills underperformed, there was just not enough oxygen for the other progressive - Costello - to make a strong case for himself. He was boxed out by the framing of the race.

Platner, flawed as he is, as gone to all of Maine and articulated this. Which is why he is going to win.

Politics is local. And it isn't theoretical.

Had leadership gotten behind Costello, he might've been able to put together a campaign. But he didn't, so he's polling 3%

[QueerDuck]

23. I take personally the gay slurs. I'm surprised at how many people (and which people) appear to be okay with it.

[Sympthsical]

54. I'm gay and don't care

And to be honest, I'm a little tired of being infantilized in this way - as an individual and as a community. I am a grown ass adult who has heard, seen, and experienced much worse than off color remarks on social media.

The idea that we are forever on the edge of the fainting couch is a tiresomely patronizing mindset. Platner couldn't hold a candle to what me and my LGBT friends say about each other and ourselves on a daily basis. I'm around people - and an entire subculture - that throws the c-word about women around like confetti, but oh my god, did you see what Platner said?! Alert the pearl industry.

I understand it's a cynical deployment, that offense and outrage are used as a currency to gain the upper hand in political arguments.

But the 2010s are over. No one cares. And I know no one cares, because the deployment of this sort of thing increasingly depends on who's doing the saying.

The curtain is down. The performance is over.

I. do. not. care.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

70. Yep. I couldn't care less if he used the F word. I want him to vote with Democrats and oppose Christian nationalists.

That’s the best way he can protect me and my friends and family.

Besides most of the quotes I’ve seen were obviously rough around the edges tongue in cheek crude humor. Some of it kind of funny (trash talk between marines and navy etc.)

I can’t help but notice the some of the same people fainting about this crude language are the same people who defended, tooth and claw, Joy Reid and her outright expressions of disgust at seeing gay men - then outright lying about it (note: fbi investigation is ongoing) — at least Platner owned up to it and apologized.

[mr715]

73. Don't forget about rapist Eric Swalwell.

[Sympthsical]

75. Some of it is genuinely funny

The vast majority of the remarks flagged are calling things gay on Reddit. In one of those instances he amusingly qualified it by saying it wasn't in the "fun, d***-sucking way" which doesn't scream virulent homophobe to this gay man's ears. The Bahrain story was fantastic.

I have heard worse shit at a Safeway.

Meanwhile, how long did some in our leadership take to see LGBT relationships as equal?

Uh huh, uh huh. And they could still be candidates for president, right? Because some of this Platner stuff is being dated to 2016, and I know of people in 2016 who had to be dragged kicking and screaming to LGBT equality in a timeline not dissimilar.

It's so insincere.

Seriously, read this Advocate article. As a gay man? I find Platner's remarks kind of hilarious. Because they're so obviously not filled with hate. I'm being honest and not putting on le grande performance for the edification of those who buy into this stuff. There's one instance of the f-word which is, like, girl no, even though it's not being directed at gay people. But the rest of it . . . I don't know of a single adult gay male who would care. Not one.

I do know some who would pretend to if it served purpose, though. And with them, it's like, y'all act like we don't know each other.

https://www.advocate.com/politics/graham-platner-homophobic-posts

[QueerDuck]

78. No one? Seriously? --- Well, I care.

I can only recommend that people expand their world and look around. I cannot indulge in the privilege and the luxury of being so blind.

[Sympthsical]

79. Oh, there is absolutely privilege at play

I used to work with homeless LGBT youth for years. I have seen abuse, kids kicked out of their homes, violence, sexual assault, resulting addiction, and some of the roughest mistreatment of teens and young adults imaginable in the Bay Area.

The real privilege is when people think off-color language and jokes are the real problem, and not the politicians who stand around and don't do everything they can to help those kids.

I know where my priorities are. And they are not accompanied by the absolute luxury of chilling on social media seeing how many times a day I can feel offended by little bits of nothing.

[QueerDuck]

81. While I deeply respect the work you have done with LGBTQ youth...

While I deeply respect the work you have done with LGBTQ youth... that is real-world impact that matters, I think you are setting up a false choice. It is not a matter of 'either/or.'

We can and should fight for the material well-being of those kids while also demanding integrity from the politicians who represent us. When we ignore a politician's past dismissiveness, we aren't being 'pragmatic' --- we are telling them that they don't have to respect us to earn our support. I don't see that as a luxury; I see it as the bare minimum requirement for anyone seeking our vote.

[Sympthsical]

85. It's a matter of priority

It is either/or. You either think policy is the most important component in an election, or you think the performance should take precedence.

And let's be real honest here. Platner's problem is that he is of a demographic where social media histories now exist. Do you think, in your heart of hearts, that various politicians you've supported in the past weren't saying similar things in private? Who don't still make similar remarks and jokes? Millennials on down are going to have to grapple with people talking online before they're famous as if they're in private with their friends. There are older politicians now that you could tell me still talk exactly like Platner did in that Reddit history, and I wouldn't even be passingly surprised. A couple names come to mind of politicians with tempers and a reputation for colorful language in private. Their conversations just weren't posted to the internet.

Hell, we had politicians telling us to our face they thought less of our lives and relationships, and we still tripped over ourselves to support them. Some . . . much later than you would think.

I think being this pressed about the passages that have been cited so far comes from a place of comfort. In a kind of, "If this is the worst thing that's happened to you today," kind of way.

We both have privilege I think, which gives us the luxury on how to exercise it.

[QueerDuck]

92. I appreciate the response, though I think you are creating a false binary.

I think you are creating a false binary. It isn't a choice between "policy" and "performance". It is a question of whether a candidate's worldview (revealed in how they speak about others when they think no one is listening) is a valid data point when predicting how they will treat those people when in power.

You mention that we have supported politicians in the past who held similar private views. My argument is that we shouldn't continue to do so. If we have spent years supporting politicians who actively degraded our community, that is an indictment of our past standards, not a blueprint for our future ones.

Furthermore, the apologies I have seen for Platner’s remarks strike me as weak and purely transactional ... they signal a desire to 'move on' rather than an actual desire to address the issues or acknowledge the damage done. That is a far cry from a genuine reckoning or an effort to prove that he is a different person today.

Your dismissal of these concerns as mere 'internet history' ignores that his attitude is not limited to long-deleted Reddit posts; even recently, he has continued to use slurs in interviews while dismissing legitimate questions about his judgment. Even the tattoo cover-up was less about genuine feelings of remorse, regret, embarrassment and personal accountability... and one that leaned toward something akin to: "there! I covered it! happy now?"

Suggesting that we should ignore evidence of a candidate's character in favor of a platform (or that doing so is a "luxury'') seems to be a strategy of political convenience, not a principled stance. I don't feel "pressed" by internet history... I am interested in evolving our expectations so we stop excusing indifference.

I prefer to hold all candidates to a standard of public and private consistency, and I don't believe that is a luxury. I believe it is the bare minimum requirement for any serious political movement.

Ultimately, I recognize that my personal reservations won't change the political outcome in Maine. Platner will be nominated and will likely defeat Collins. But I am tired of being asked to sacrifice my standards and self-respect for the sake of political expediency. I have no interest in being told to sit down, shut up, and ignore these patterns. Because you and I clearly have fundamentally different thresholds for what we consider disqualifying, there is no value in continuing this exchange.

[Nanjeanne]

96. I appreciate your perspective and yes those comments are deserving of condemnation. But what might

be of interest to you is reading an article done by a deep dive into the entire years of posts that gives one a much more robust idea of what Platner was posting beyond a few pulled out posts. It may not change your mind and that’s fine. But as you have indicated how you have made your decisions on what your standards are it probably would be worth reading a much more sum total of Platners Reddit history.

I’ve posted the link to read someone who has actually read every single Reddit post and attempts to show a much more complex a picture. https://www.democraticunderground.com/100221290750

[QueerDuck]

72. Whether or not individuals within a community use certain language with each other is a personal choice.

However, an elected official seeking to represent all their constituents (including those they have disparaged) is held to a different standard. This isn't about anyone being infantilized... it is about recognizing that not every member of the community enjoys the same level of security or insulation from the real-world consequences of dehumanizing rhetoric.

When we normalize this language in our leadership, we aren't just talking about "crude humor"... we are talking about the safety and dignity of people who do not have the luxury of ignoring it.

[Sympthsical]

77. This sounds exhausting

Isn't it exhausting? To put such inconsequential things in these outrageously apocalyptic terms all of the time?

I don't care. I've read his remarks. Outside of one f-word in 2018 that isn't even directed at gay people, there's really nothing there I haven't heard a thousand times from gay and straight men alike. If he were still talking like this as a politician, ok, maybe we can have that conversation. But I haven't seen anything recent.

I do care about policies. And I've watched people who are currently reaching for the salts defend politicians whose policies either created tangible harm to the community or excused it away or allowed it to happen because it was in their political interest to be effectively indifferent in action while still maintaining the performance.

I've seen our community go under the bus for the sake of the powerful for so long. This, "But past language!" just betrays a lack of seriousness or proportionality. It feels utterly insincere. If it actually is genuine, then I question priorities.

I'm sorry. Girl. Be for real for real with this.

[QueerDuck]

80. No it's not.

I appreciate the call for proportionality, as that is exactly what I am seeking. I am not interested in a 'gotcha' moment over old words... I am interested in how the past informs current political character.

You mentioned being tired of the community being thrown under the bus for political convenience... well, that is precisely my concern. When we dismiss past language, we often lose the ability to spot the "performance" of indifference that you yourself identified as a major problem.

I’d rather we hold everyone to a higher standard of consistency, rather than choosing which inconsistencies we are willing to ignore for the sake of current political strategy.

[BComplex]

57. These statements are incendiary in the extreme, and many of these issues cited

have not been corroborated, but many have been shown to be taken totally out of context, and have been embellished in the extreme.

I totally disagree with your hateful assessment of Graham Platner.

I can see that you do not want the leading democratic candidate to win this race, and I question if you think there is a viable alternative. Viable being the key.

[gab13by13]

8. I support Democrats

[multigraincracker]

16. If so many can vote for a Pdeo, Sexual Abuser,

Tax Cheat, Dumb Shit, bankrupt lier, etc, we can vote for this guy. Could there be a better person, perhaps but not enough time to sort them out

[Bobstandard]

18. Simple logic

If Collins is reflected our chance of winning the senate is reduced and we continue to get Collins’ terrible governance.

If Platner wins we’ve got a better chance of winning the Senate. We don’t know for sure that Platner will give us better governance, but there’s a chance he will

I’ll take some chance versus no chance every time.

[Scrivener7]

82. AND it's another Democratic butt in a Senate chair to help bring us into the majority, and

all the advantages that represents.

I see this as being like when we were saying one of the major reasons we HAD to elect Hillary was because of the Supreme Court. So many didn't seem to understand the concept then. I think they all get it now.

This is similar. We need all the Democrats we can get in Congress, whether they're ideal or not.

[wolfie001]

21. I wish I could vote for him but I'm in Maryland

We need fighters in the Senate and not sell-outs who write "strongly worded letters."

[mvd]

24. That's why I disagree with my own Democratic Representative

Usually have no problem with Rep. Dean, but disagreed with her comments about Platner. Would she rather have Collins? Now if it comes out that Platner did anything violent or did sexual assault or harassment, that would be different.

[flashman13]

28. Everything I see says that We the People want to take power from the establishment.

That is entirely Platner's platform.

[delisen]

29. Wrong Framing! We love imperfects! We hate being lied to.

and stop with the pearl clutching insults. Most of us cannot afford real pearls.

[mr715]

43. No party is perfect, but at least we try to get better.

Don't clutch pearls, they are just irritants wearing a fancy dress.

[Vinca]

30. Re Platner - if only he had more serious sexual misconduct he could run for POTUS.

At this point, I don't care what Democrat wins in Maine, just so a Democrat wins. No more Susan Collins. We need numbers.

[TBF]

34. This is how I voted in the Texas primary -

At that point we didn't know if it would be Cornyn or Paxton on the other side. I went with the young, white, religious guy - thought he could potentially win a statewide office in TX. Potentially. Against Cornyn, who knows? Known republican in office for decades. At least we'd have a chance though. The MAGA eat their own and put up Paxton instead. Now I like Talarico's chances even better. Still not sure, because Texas, but we have a decent chance, I think.

All I can say is: good luck Maine - do what you have to in order to get Susan out.

[Bluetus]

41. If I were perfect, I might have a different attitude

But as I see it, people do make mistakes, and people have an opportunity to learn and grow.

In my book, the greater sin is hypocrisy. Platner has not hidden from his past. He owns all these things, at least the things that are true. His sins are a tattoo and marriage difficulties. The people running this smear campaign have been conducting genocides almost continuously for generations.

We need some perspective here.

[QueerDuck]

46. I believe we need to hold our elected representatives to a higher standard, rather than making excuses...

I believe we need to hold our elected representatives to a higher standard, rather than making excuses, looking the other way, or grading them on a curve based on our own personal flaws.

I am looking for honorable character, temperament, and professional demeanor in our candidates. It is simply not enough for me to relate to a candidate, or give free-passes, simply because we have both made mistakes, or because they seem like "someone I’d enjoy having a beer with."

I find the claim that he "owned his past" to be disingenuous. The core issue here isn't just the poor choice of a tattoo; it is the implausibility of his denial. To claim he had no idea what the symbol meant, that nobody ever questioned it, and that nobody ever told him strains credulity --- especially given his education level, the age of the tattoo, and his history of political activism.

If he truly wants to 'come clean,' we need a confession and apology that actually rings true. What we have received instead is a flat denial coupled with a last minute tattoo cover-up, done only when it became politically expedient. This feels entirely transactional rather than a sincere, meaningful admission of wrongdoing. We deserve better than 'convenient' accountability.

[Bluetus]

56. I don't believe anybody who says they knew all along that

this particular variation of the common skull and crossbones artwork has special significance connected only with Nazis.

I don't believe it.

Once somebody has dug up some obscure references to that, we are now flooded with people who "knew it all along".

I don't believe it. Maybe you did know it, but I find that highly implausible.

I also find in implausible that a person would want to show off his Nazi colors, yet would choose a symbol that nobody knows about, not even most modern American Nazis.

What I find plausible is that a soldier who did 4 tours, living 24x7 with some of the most radical people in our society, many bordering on sociopathy and PTSD, would go to a tattoo parlor and say "That one looks cool. Let's go with that." And if I thought he was still that person 20 years later, I would not support him.

[ColoringFool]

60. Okay, FUHGEDDABOUTIT. But One Thing Platner MUST CHANGE.....

"The 'Stache That Ate Maine"!

He's GOTTA shave it off his upper lip! Not the philtrum; the actual lip!

👎 🚫🧔 🙈 😝

[MorbidButterflyTat]

69. "...personal imperfection..."

Yep, nothing to see here!

[Swede]

83. Known as a purity test.

nt

[MorbidButterflyTat]

90. I get it

People who don't make endless excuses for his lies, his misogynistic, cruel and racist comments, his sexting on a notorious hook up app, his Nazi tattoo, crap I've forgotten and who knows what's to come, are "pearl clutching purity testers."

He's a "fighter," who crumbled under political pressure to cover up his tat, who's never won an election or held public office or done anything other than make empty apologies and empty promises, but deserves to jump right into the Senate because he calls himself a progressive Democrat.

A 30 year veteran of the Senate probably won't have a ton of surprises for Mainers and the US if he wins the nomination tomorrow.

Oh well.

[58Sunliner]

74. Kick and rec.

[SuzyandPuffpuff]

76. Bam

I like him ... call me crazy

[Cha]

84. "personal imperfections" Is that what they're calling

Planter's putting the blame on rape victims?

In 2013 Reddit posts that resurfaced during his campaign, Platner downplayed the military's sexual assault crisis. He wrote that women worried about rape need to "not get so f---ed up they wind up having sex with someone they don't mean to" and told people to "act like an adult for f---s sake".

I get that Planter will get down and fight with Dirthy Fucking Fascists, but does that mean his history has to be whitewashed?

[MorbidButterflyTat]

91. I don't know about that

He caved easily under political pressure and covered up a tattoo he had for 18 years while claiming ignorance of its meaning while drunk. Ironic excuse considering what he said about how women need to avoid booze and rape.

I don't know why anyone thinks he's a fighter.

[betsuni]

95. Whining that Democrats want to "rip my life apart" -- help help they're out to get me!

Same Democrats who are described as bumbling spineless centrists and a terrifyingly powerful cabal at the same time?

Fighting what?

[Metaphorical]

89. I'm going to take an unpopular position

We need more Platners.

Here's the reality - Mainers has always been independent. The Democrats there are going to hold their nose and vote for him, because it gets Collins out of the Senate. Where Platner is going to make a huge difference is in the independent and even soft MAGA republicans, who have looked askance at Collins for several votes in the past that seemed fairly moderate (even if she is pretty much in lockstep with Trump) and Trump has not gone out of his way to endorse here, and may actually prefer a Platner because he seems more "MAGA" adjacent.

Will Platner be another Fetterman? I doubt it. I honestly think Fetterman is exhibiting personality changes that are consistent with strokes, and that take a while to fully manifest. I'd say it's a near certainty that Fetterman's going to cross the aisle after the election, but I also think that Lisa Mulkowski will declare herself an independent and caucus with the Democrats if he does. The other difference is that Platner is a fighter. He wouldn't get elected in California or Washington State, but he's not running for office there - he's running in Maine, which is mainly working class, a fair number of military, and yes, independent.

We need to get out of the purity test trap. It's people seeking perfection in generalized candidates, when in fact what we need are people that are willing to take the fight to the Republicans. I frankly am tired of seeing people like Al Franken tarred and feathered on the basis of innuendo and rumor, mostly spread by people who have turned out to have less than noble goals themselves.

[OldBaldy1701E]

93. Hear Hear!

Democrats don’t need another fucking candidate who reassures billionaire donors that nothing fundamental will change. They need one who can convince voters that something finally might.