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Disaffected

(6,551 posts)
108. "renewables" are less than 10% of China's primary energy..."
Thu May 14, 2026, 12:30 PM
23 hrs ago

Source?

Whether or not Australia for instance continues to export fossil fuels is not relevant to their reductions in emissions they have achieved via solar energy.

I'm curious why you as well as resident self-proclaimed experts think solar and wind should be discarded for nuclear when:

. the waste disposal problem has no good solution

. the cost and build lead times of nuclear energy is significantly higher than the alternatives:

..............

As of early 2026, utility-scale solar and onshore wind remain the most affordable sources of new energy generation globally, while new nuclear installations are significantly more expensive.

The most common metric for comparing these costs is the Levelized Cost of Energy (LCOE), which represents the average cost per megawatt-hour (MWh) over the lifetime of a plant, including construction, operation, and fuel.2025-2026 Cost Comparison (Unsubsidized)According to data from the EIA's 2025/2026 Outlook and Lazard's LCOE+, the typical cost ranges are:

Technology"

Estimated LCOE (USD/MWh)Primary Cost Drivers:

Utility Solar PV$30 – $65Low hardware costs; high land/permitting speed.

Onshore Wind$35 – $80High turbine efficiency; site-specific wind quality.

Offshore Wind$85 – $150Complex marine installation and transmission.

Advanced Nuclear$80 – $170+Extreme capital costs; long construction timelines.

Key Financial Differences:

1. Capital Expenditure (CapEx) vs. Operating Costs:

Nuclear: Has "very high" upfront costs. Building a new plant can take 10–15 years and cost billions, leading to high interest and financing expenses. However, its operating costs are relatively low once the plant is online.

Solar/Wind: Have significantly lower upfront costs and essentially zero fuel costs. They can be built and connected to the grid in months or a few years.

2. "Firming" and System Costs

While the generation cost of solar and wind is lower, they are intermittent. To provide the same reliability as nuclear (which is "dispatchable" or "baseload&quot , they often require:

Battery Storage: Adding storage can increase the effective LCOE of renewables by $20–$50/MWh.

Grid Upgrades: Renewables often require extensive new transmission lines to move power from windy/sunny remote areas to cities.3.

Recent Trends:

Nuclear Rebound: Despite the high cost, investment in nuclear has risen by 50% over the last five years, driven by the need for carbon-free baseload power and interest in Small Modular Reactors (SMRs), which aim to lower costs through factory-style manufacturing.

Renewable Maturity: After decades of rapid price drops, the "low end" costs for solar and wind have stabilized recently due to higher interest rates and supply chain pressures for materials like copper and steel.

Summary: If the goal is the lowest cost per unit of energy produced, solar and wind win decisively. If the goal is grid stability without fossil fuels, nuclear is often viewed as a necessary, albeit much more expensive, partner in a diversified energy portfolio.

.......................

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the above - it is what Gemini chugs out but it seems reasonable.

I guess the ultimate best solution is fusion power but who knows if/when that will happen.

Recommendations

1 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

OMFG Chicagogrl1 Wednesday #1
MTG got ridiculed for saying the same thing... regnaD kciN Wednesday #2
He's never seen the solar path lights they sell in the stores dalton99a Wednesday #3
I have four different sets of them in my garden and by my door. niyad Wednesday #11
Thanks for that. I don't have outside outlets and would like to have lights outside. Just hadn't thought it through Amaryllis Wednesday #75
You are most welcome. There are so many kinds available. Have fun choosing! niyad Wednesday #76
Costco has had some pretty ones in the past. AllyCat Wednesday #86
Dollar store even has them NHvet Yesterday #105
Burgum wanting a rational discussion on subject he doesn't understand. txwhitedove Wednesday #4
you can't understand something when your livelihood depends on ignorance DBoon Wednesday #23
... eppur_se_muova Wednesday #58
He understands it. He misinforms, gaslights, obfuscates, lies by design. LuvLoogie Wednesday #61
Sinclair Lewis understood Burgum's ilk charliea Wednesday #66
He cannot possibly be this stupid mcar Wednesday #5
Of course he can! Why do you think the puppeteers chose him? niyad Wednesday #7
He, like the rest of the minions, sold his soul to TSF mcar Wednesday #9
You are assuming that they had souls to sell? niyad Wednesday #12
Good point mcar Wednesday #54
Disagree! Ray Bruns Yesterday #95
He is not stupid. Disingenuous yes but stupid he is not. Botany Yesterday #101
One of two things is true of Burgum meow2u3 Wednesday #6
He could be that dumb, and still helping to line the pockets of the niyad Wednesday #8
Extraction, vulture capitalism's engine burns fossil fuel Magoo48 Wednesday #42
He seriously just might be that dumb Seinan Sensei Wednesday #49
Both could be true... AZ8theist Yesterday #92
Actually, the belief that batteries are sustainable is... NNadir Wednesday #10
What are suggesting instead? MadameButterfly Wednesday #15
I willingly take some flak for my position that there is... NNadir Wednesday #19
Nuclear has a role to play liberalgunwilltravel Wednesday #22
I am an expert on this topic, having studied it for decades. NNadir Wednesday #25
Nuclear is fine as part of the solution liberalgunwilltravel Wednesday #28
I am always asked this question, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. NNadir Wednesday #36
For the uninitiated (like me), DME stands for dimethyl ether. TheRickles Wednesday #52
I do not support DME from dangerous natural gas. As is the case with hydrogen itself, exergy is destroyed under... NNadir Wednesday #55
I heard that we can't produce the steel needed for SMRs anymore. SonOfNebanaube Wednesday #79
Chornobyl converted me from being an uneducated antinuke to a well educated nuclear advocate. NNadir Yesterday #93
If you remember the remark made by the nonscientist, Louis Strauss, the "bad guy" in the movie Oppenheimer... NNadir Yesterday #94
What about them? Boo1 11 hrs ago #114
I've been down this road MadameButterfly 3 hrs ago #120
The finest minds of the 21st century understand that nuclear energy is not the only form of sustainable energy. thought crime Wednesday #84
We have a Nuke plant in Kansas and we've been RAPED by it on rates since 1985 Bengus81 Yesterday #98
Nevertheless the planet has been raped by fossil fuels. NNadir Yesterday #99
How much do you pay for electricity? hunter Yesterday #107
Maybe nuclear? Mossfern Wednesday #20
You need power liberalgunwilltravel Wednesday #30
Thanks Mossfern Wednesday #59
Hydrogen, whether generated by clean nuclear power or by so called "renewable energy" is a terrible idea as a... NNadir Wednesday #41
Thank you Mossfern Wednesday #60
Well the good thing about admitting one knows little - the excellent thing in fact - is that one's mind is open. NNadir Wednesday #63
This message was self-deleted by its author MadameButterfly Wednesday #16
I'm Sorry but what you say is not the whole story. liberalgunwilltravel Wednesday #21
At Field Station Berlin we used lead-acid batteries in our powerhouse jmowreader Wednesday #48
Hmm... the smell: would exposure be detrimental w all that lead or a short time there would prevent that electric_blue68 Wednesday #56
Once the lead is cast into plates and fixed into a cell it's no problem, so long as it stays there jmowreader Wednesday #87
chemical batteries are only one type of battery lapfog_1 Wednesday #32
LFP batteries don't have cobalt (or even nickel) however. Disaffected Wednesday #38
It's always something tomorrow. hunter Wednesday #53
Fusion energy and the hydrogen economy are very iffy alright but, Disaffected Wednesday #73
Magic in the sense that they would allow us to quit both fossil fuels and nuclear power. hunter Yesterday #89
I don't think anyone is seriously claiming batteries will reach utopia, Disaffected Yesterday #91
Sorry to disappoint, but "renewables" are less than 10% of China's primary energy... hunter Yesterday #106
"renewables" are less than 10% of China's primary energy..." Disaffected 23 hrs ago #108
There was all sorts of happy talk about renewable energy in China... hunter 12 hrs ago #112
The Trump administration is trying to boost nuclear energy thought crime Wednesday #88
I have spent decades in the primary scientific literature and as a result, I have very little patience for handwaving. NNadir Wednesday #62
Good grief, I'll not waste time trying to respond to all your "points". Disaffected Wednesday #68
Um, kiddie...China is NOT a Luddite country. It's become the world leader in science, since in the US abrogated... NNadir 11 hrs ago #115
Ugh. Disaffected 10 hrs ago #117
Trust me, I'm well aware that there are people who cannot be "convinced" of anything. They're not especially bright... NNadir 10 hrs ago #118
I think we have talked about this before. I am hearing that there are companies that PatrickforB Wednesday #46
In applications that are not sensitive to energy density, USAF Brat Wednesday #57
I used to be totally off grid with batteries but connected to grid and now can watch my electric metor spin backwards womanofthehills 11 hrs ago #113
Rs also like to say when there's no wind blowing KS Toronado Wednesday #13
🤣🤣🤣 ultralite001 Wednesday #14
I had an experience several months ago with a MAGA about wind energy storage. wnylib Wednesday #70
Also, wind farms are placed in windy places womanofthehills 10 hrs ago #116
Amen KS Toronado 4 hrs ago #119
He know that.. he's Trumps jester. BradBo Wednesday #17
Literally... BurnDoubt Wednesday #18
This old girl would just say, it seems it can get complicated. Joinfortmill Wednesday #24
Batteries are a regressive tax on low income people... hunter Wednesday #26
LOL popsdenver Wednesday #44
Hoover dam has never produced as much electricity in a single year... hunter Wednesday #67
I guess popsdenver Wednesday #69
The argument against renewable energy is an alternative form of climate change denial. thought crime Wednesday #47
"the sole purpose of which is to assuage the guilt that affluent people feel for their environmentally destructive lifes DBoon Wednesday #85
Doh! Dave Bowman Wednesday #27
Well, batteries Manatee Wednesday #29
Ouch! Chasstev365 Wednesday #31
My outdoor solar lights stay on all night. Are they possessed? twodogsbarking Wednesday #33
The lengths these... relogic Wednesday #34
Yes, and when the sun goes down there is no photosynthesis and the plants all die. dedl67 Wednesday #35
+1 dalton99a Wednesday #40
BURGUM... littlemissmartypants Wednesday #37
An overly simple idea Crawford Wednesday #39
Enough with these "The gentleman..." swong19104 Wednesday #43
"Are you a fucking idiot?" I love that. Buddyzbuddy Wednesday #50
The same basic argument is made for wind jmowreader Wednesday #45
I covered the absurdity of this argument previously, discussing the amount of cobalt required to cover a month of... NNadir Wednesday #51
The Tesla 3 battery, the one "currently" manufactured Disaffected Wednesday #83
We're saved then!!!!! A lot has been written about these batteries it turns out, and a full commentary... NNadir Yesterday #97
Don't bother, Disaffected Yesterday #102
Well, I'll comment despite your disinterest on the science... NNadir Yesterday #104
Good one. Please explain this very novel and new concept to me. Thanks. efhmc Wednesday #64
He is his boss's servant D_Master81 Wednesday #65
Although Solar Syastems produce NO POWER at night... WarGamer Wednesday #71
That moment of "sunlight" exposed Burgum to be oasis Wednesday #72
According to Bergum, solar is "intermittent" and not secure Renew Deal Wednesday #74
They are going to complain that some other power source is interruptable during RockRaven Wednesday #77
Genius that one is BillJoeBobBeauregard Wednesday #78
just have to put in this reply and a response to the reply: orleans Wednesday #80
Is there a Nobel Prize for stupidity? Permanut Wednesday #81
Yes. It's called the FIFA Peace Prize. Ray Bruns Yesterday #96
For the next news flash - wind turbines stop generating when there is no wind! Aussie105 Wednesday #82
Australia can become a global energy powerhouse thought crime Yesterday #100
You could put solar panels near hydro dams and applegrove Yesterday #90
That has been done ("stored hydro") but Disaffected 18 hrs ago #111
I'm guessing Burgum self-identifies as an energy expert Torchlight Yesterday #103
MaddowBlog-On renewable energy, Interior's Burgum offers a case study in willful ignorance LetMyPeopleVote 21 hrs ago #109
Breaking news: Batteries LetMyPeopleVote 20 hrs ago #110
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»BURGUM: When the sun goes...»Reply #108