Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

wnylib

(26,897 posts)
55. Most American voters don't have that background understanding
Fri Jul 3, 2026, 07:45 AM
13 hrs ago

of Europe, but they do know that health care is more available there for everyone than in the US. I read your post about the cost of your recent health crisis. In the US, many people would have gone bankrupt to get that care. Others would simply not have received it at all because of an inability to afford the initial visit to a doctor to be diagnosed. By law, ERs here have to treat people who arrive without health insurance, but in practice, those patients get poor attention and treatment because they can't afford the cost of health insurance or to pay out of pocket for diagnosis and treatment.

Of course not all European nations are the same and not all people within them are the same. But in general, there appears to be a better approach to some issues of quality of life than in the US. Here there is an attitude that my German-born great aunt used to refer to contemptuously as, "I've got mine and devil take the hindmost." She was my grandmother's sister and their family left Kaiser Bill's German Empire in 1890 when they were young children, long before modern social programs.

From what I sometimes read, the EU's regulations on things like social media and food production and processing are more mindful of people's protections than in the US where corporations under unregulated capitalism are kings that own Congress. Yet European nations also have quite successful capitalist businesses and corporations. I don't believe that they are faultless utopias, but they are more socially oriented in many ways that we are not.

I was born a few years after WWII ended, so I remember when the US still had corporate regulations from the FDR era on monopolies that prevented huge corporate conglomerates from ruling as if capitalism were a governing system instead of being a financial tool of society. That was before RW politicians chipped away at financial regulations in pursuit of raw, unregulated capitalism.

I am also old enough to remember who the European leaders were that you mentioned. Not that I knew a lot about them, but I did have a very general idea of where they stood politically. Even with a more conservative swing in Europe now, they are socially ahead of the US in many areas of quality of life.

I don't have an in-depth knowledge of German history, but have learned on my own more than we were taught in high school and college courses on European history. I wanted to understand the background of my mother's family. So I understand what you mean about the post war period adjustments from the Prussian authoritarian, bureaucratic way of life.

My mother's paternal side were from West Prussia, near what was then the southern border between Prussia and Poland. Her grandfather was a Uhlan general from an untitled junker family. In 1888 he supported the social and political reform plans of Kaiser Wilhelm II's parents, Kaiser Friedrich and Kaiserina Victoria (daughter of Queen Victoria) for a parliamentarian system like Britain's. But Friedrich only lived a few months as Kaiser and his son, Kaiser Wilhelm II, charged his father's reform supporters with treason, so my mother's grandparents fled with their children to the US.

The maternal side of my mother's family came from a little village called Dargun in what was then Mecklenburg-Schwerin, not very far from the Danish border. The village was founded by Danish monks (13th century, I think) who built their monastery on a mission to convert the Pagan Germans there. That side of the family left, like hundreds of other people from Mecklenburg, for better economic opportunities.

Bureaucratic sloganeers are, IMO, the downside of socialism and one reason why I couldn't support socialism as a political/economic system. But incorporating some social programs into a capitalist democracy as the FDR adminstrations did, is something that I think Americans are ready to do as a reaction against the present move toward a fascist oligarchy.



Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

He's right Fiendish Thingy Yesterday #1
I have been saying this over and over for the 8 years (today is my 8 year anniversary) I have been on DU Celerity Yesterday #16
Happy Anniversary SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #30
thanks so much Celerity Yesterday #35
What's the difference? Farmer-Rick Yesterday #17
It's more than semantics Fiendish Thingy Yesterday #23
I agree AZProgressive Yesterday #2
And, believe it or not, as president, Biden was the closest to a Keynesian since LBJ. Fiendish Thingy Yesterday #24
Like when the Danish PM reminded someone that Denmark's a market economy, not socialist. betsuni Yesterday #3
That reminds me of a quote from Tom Souzzi AZProgressive Yesterday #7
These secret conspire & whine cocktail parties sound intriguing. betsuni 21 hrs ago #36
Oh, and same revolution person said attendees at such Democratic events are "older, whiter, and wealthier" betsuni 20 hrs ago #43
Not only that DFW 19 hrs ago #44
I forgot the canapes: "Some of the wealthiest members of the political establishment are hiding behind closed doors betsuni 10 hrs ago #57
When I hear canapes, I always think caviar, which I hate DFW 9 hrs ago #58
I love the Scandinavian smoked cod roe caviar that comes in tubes (any seafood-mayo or cheese in tubes). betsuni 7 hrs ago #61
I used to get this a lot in France in the 1960s, from many 18 year old experts on the USA who had never been there DFW 4 hrs ago #63
Norman Thomas, perennial socialist candidate, knew FDR was not a Socialist DBoon 9 hrs ago #59
More of us every day. BlueTsunami2018 Yesterday #4
Socialism represents public power. Of course Emile Yesterday #5
Absolutely, and, I'm tired of the bad faith false choice. Oneironaut Yesterday #6
But MAGA morons believe Fox, and Trump, and SInclaire radio, NewsMax etc. They're dumb and hateful people ChicagoTeamster Yesterday #8
Great, just please stop using the term "socialist." Say "Democrat." Period. Auggie Yesterday #9
Doesn't matter SurfLiberal Yesterday #10
That word can rally their troops. Like your idea -- stay home. Auggie Yesterday #25
Doesn't mean you have to call yourself one Boo1 Yesterday #26
Sorta like the Nordic model Joinfortmill Yesterday #11
social democracy is a foundation for our Nordic Model (I am in Sweden) Celerity Yesterday #13
The elephant in the room that is not being addressed here.. ananda Yesterday #12
This message was self-deleted by its author applegrove Yesterday #14
It is called liberalism in Canada. applegrove Yesterday #15
The Liberal Party of Canada is not a social democratic party, the New Democratic Party is the social democratic party. Celerity Yesterday #27
They could have had Polliviere Callie1979 14 hrs ago #51
Economically, Carney is making multiple moves that are similar to what Poilievre would do, Celerity 13 hrs ago #54
Small "L" liberalism Fiendish Thingy Yesterday #29
Used to be called that in the US, too. wnylib 21 hrs ago #37
Then the neocons took away the word liberal by making it derogatory. applegrove 21 hrs ago #38
I refused to have it taken from me. There is nothing wrong wnylib 20 hrs ago #41
Liberal and Socialist have been tainted by the Rs and their Big Media 31j20b3 Yesterday #18
John Steinbeck quote anamnua Yesterday #19
And that was many decades BEFORE Fox Noise. DFW 14 hrs ago #53
As soon as the Govt starts bailing out failed "free market" Capitalism, any argument against Govt social programs ToxMarz Yesterday #20
Right you are. Tax breaks for corporations is just a direct applegrove Yesterday #22
That's a consequence of financial deregulations that wnylib 21 hrs ago #39
Regulated capitalism saw capitalism as an economic tool. Capitlists seek to unleash it as a form of governance. ToxMarz 20 hrs ago #42
yup Skittles 19 hrs ago #45
It doesn't matter Cirsium Yesterday #21
Too many FASCISTS in the U.S! Remember in WWII, it was the fascists who REALLY hated the socialists. eom Exp Yesterday #28
In The Third Reich, they merged DFW 19 hrs ago #46
Absolutely. SamuelAdams Yesterday #31
I have a confession to make SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #32
Same here. I have always said that I am a liberal Dem to the left of center, but wnylib 20 hrs ago #40
It gets complicated when you say As In Europe. DFW 18 hrs ago #47
Most American voters don't have that background understanding wnylib 13 hrs ago #55
Pretty sad when affordable day care, affordable rent, and affordable transportation are called "socialism". Bluetus Yesterday #33
Sad and disingenuous as well. DFW 18 hrs ago #48
Krugman is tops BaronChocula Yesterday #34
And the supposedly business-friendly Republicans cut Obama's business Stimulus package in half DFW 18 hrs ago #49
Scumbags BaronChocula 15 hrs ago #50
It is a mentality we will never understand, and they exploit that to the max DFW 14 hrs ago #52
"but they are grateful for our reluctance to do so" BaronChocula 8 hrs ago #60
I have run into Gingrich a few times, but never really talked to him. DFW 3 hrs ago #65
He's very wrong TVguyCards 12 hrs ago #56
I think most people voting for candidates to get universal applegrove 5 hrs ago #62
I wouldn't be so sure TVguyCards 4 hrs ago #64
"make the argument that workers should own the means of production" EX500rider 3 hrs ago #66
Ahh I was expecting you to say that :) TVguyCards 2 hrs ago #67
So the short answer is there have been no economically successful socialists countries? EX500rider 1 hr ago #68
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»There Are Very Few Social...»Reply #55