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DFW

(60,874 posts)
63. I used to get this a lot in France in the 1960s, from many 18 year old experts on the USA who had never been there
Fri Jul 3, 2026, 04:30 PM
5 hrs ago

I have seen "the true existing socialism," as they used to label themselves, in East Germany, where the regime proudly shot their own people at the border when they didn't react appropriately to the demand of "Papiere, Bitte!" and tried to leave anyway. I was in Cuba in 1982, and talked with both the lower echelon party true believers (riding around in chauffeur-driven Volga sedans, convinced they had "earned" it) and realistic higher-ups who explained that the government frankly didn't have enough hard currency to both pay for vital imports and let their people travel whenever they wanted. They didn't want to raid every house looking for it (the top guys were under no illusions of how "popular" their socialism was), but they couldn't let it leave the country, either. "Una cuestión de devisas," is how one of the top guys from the BNC put it. At least their upper rank government people knew what the score was--they just never dared say so to the ones riding the limousines. I have seen enough socialism in practice to conclude that "Democratic Socialism" is in the same category as "Military Intelligence" and Vegan Steakhouse." You can wade into the ocean and swim, but you will never grow gills, and you are still not a fish.

And I STILL don't like fish eggs!! They are all yours!

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He's right Fiendish Thingy Yesterday #1
I have been saying this over and over for the 8 years (today is my 8 year anniversary) I have been on DU Celerity Yesterday #16
Happy Anniversary SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #30
thanks so much Celerity Yesterday #35
What's the difference? Farmer-Rick Yesterday #17
It's more than semantics Fiendish Thingy Yesterday #23
I agree AZProgressive Yesterday #2
And, believe it or not, as president, Biden was the closest to a Keynesian since LBJ. Fiendish Thingy Yesterday #24
Like when the Danish PM reminded someone that Denmark's a market economy, not socialist. betsuni Yesterday #3
That reminds me of a quote from Tom Souzzi AZProgressive Yesterday #7
These secret conspire & whine cocktail parties sound intriguing. betsuni 22 hrs ago #36
Oh, and same revolution person said attendees at such Democratic events are "older, whiter, and wealthier" betsuni 21 hrs ago #43
Not only that DFW 20 hrs ago #44
I forgot the canapes: "Some of the wealthiest members of the political establishment are hiding behind closed doors betsuni 11 hrs ago #57
When I hear canapes, I always think caviar, which I hate DFW 10 hrs ago #58
I love the Scandinavian smoked cod roe caviar that comes in tubes (any seafood-mayo or cheese in tubes). betsuni 8 hrs ago #61
I used to get this a lot in France in the 1960s, from many 18 year old experts on the USA who had never been there DFW 5 hrs ago #63
Norman Thomas, perennial socialist candidate, knew FDR was not a Socialist DBoon 10 hrs ago #59
More of us every day. BlueTsunami2018 Yesterday #4
Socialism represents public power. Of course Emile Yesterday #5
Absolutely, and, I'm tired of the bad faith false choice. Oneironaut Yesterday #6
But MAGA morons believe Fox, and Trump, and SInclaire radio, NewsMax etc. They're dumb and hateful people ChicagoTeamster Yesterday #8
Great, just please stop using the term "socialist." Say "Democrat." Period. Auggie Yesterday #9
Doesn't matter SurfLiberal Yesterday #10
That word can rally their troops. Like your idea -- stay home. Auggie Yesterday #25
Doesn't mean you have to call yourself one Boo1 Yesterday #26
Sorta like the Nordic model Joinfortmill Yesterday #11
social democracy is a foundation for our Nordic Model (I am in Sweden) Celerity Yesterday #13
The elephant in the room that is not being addressed here.. ananda Yesterday #12
This message was self-deleted by its author applegrove Yesterday #14
It is called liberalism in Canada. applegrove Yesterday #15
The Liberal Party of Canada is not a social democratic party, the New Democratic Party is the social democratic party. Celerity Yesterday #27
They could have had Polliviere Callie1979 15 hrs ago #51
Economically, Carney is making multiple moves that are similar to what Poilievre would do, Celerity 14 hrs ago #54
Small "L" liberalism Fiendish Thingy Yesterday #29
Used to be called that in the US, too. wnylib 22 hrs ago #37
Then the neocons took away the word liberal by making it derogatory. applegrove 22 hrs ago #38
I refused to have it taken from me. There is nothing wrong wnylib 21 hrs ago #41
Liberal and Socialist have been tainted by the Rs and their Big Media 31j20b3 Yesterday #18
John Steinbeck quote anamnua Yesterday #19
And that was many decades BEFORE Fox Noise. DFW 15 hrs ago #53
As soon as the Govt starts bailing out failed "free market" Capitalism, any argument against Govt social programs ToxMarz Yesterday #20
Right you are. Tax breaks for corporations is just a direct applegrove Yesterday #22
That's a consequence of financial deregulations that wnylib 22 hrs ago #39
Regulated capitalism saw capitalism as an economic tool. Capitlists seek to unleash it as a form of governance. ToxMarz 21 hrs ago #42
yup Skittles 20 hrs ago #45
It doesn't matter Cirsium Yesterday #21
Too many FASCISTS in the U.S! Remember in WWII, it was the fascists who REALLY hated the socialists. eom Exp Yesterday #28
In The Third Reich, they merged DFW 20 hrs ago #46
Absolutely. SamuelAdams Yesterday #31
I have a confession to make SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #32
Same here. I have always said that I am a liberal Dem to the left of center, but wnylib 21 hrs ago #40
It gets complicated when you say As In Europe. DFW 19 hrs ago #47
Most American voters don't have that background understanding wnylib 14 hrs ago #55
Pretty sad when affordable day care, affordable rent, and affordable transportation are called "socialism". Bluetus Yesterday #33
Sad and disingenuous as well. DFW 19 hrs ago #48
Krugman is tops BaronChocula Yesterday #34
And the supposedly business-friendly Republicans cut Obama's business Stimulus package in half DFW 19 hrs ago #49
Scumbags BaronChocula 16 hrs ago #50
It is a mentality we will never understand, and they exploit that to the max DFW 15 hrs ago #52
"but they are grateful for our reluctance to do so" BaronChocula 9 hrs ago #60
I have run into Gingrich a few times, but never really talked to him. DFW 4 hrs ago #65
He's very wrong TVguyCards 13 hrs ago #56
I think most people voting for candidates to get universal applegrove 6 hrs ago #62
I wouldn't be so sure TVguyCards 5 hrs ago #64
"make the argument that workers should own the means of production" EX500rider 4 hrs ago #66
Ahh I was expecting you to say that :) TVguyCards 3 hrs ago #67
So the short answer is there have been no economically successful socialists countries? EX500rider 2 hrs ago #68
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