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Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
23. Okay, Part II:
Fri Oct 4, 2013, 07:39 PM
Oct 2013

Which is not to say "I'm so great, I'm above it all"... but I have spent my life seeking out communities and circles that are open-minded and non-judgmental; this is why I gravitated towards the hippies, in college (in addition to the music and, okay, the fact that they smoked the best pot) Really, the attitudes of people who sniffed or harumphed over my staying at home were never more than a blip- now they strike me as just funny.

I mean, objectively, if the genders in my household were reversed no way in hell would anyone think it was "weird" for me to be the one at home. I think I have a healthy appreciation for my own intellectual capabilities, but compared to my wife, I'm a blithering idiot. Seriously. Not in like a "oh, dad's a bumbling ninny" sitcom sort of way, for real. She's far sharper than me. So at various times it has made perfect sense for her to be the one with the "real" job, and neither of us got particularly hung up on the matter.

In terms of domestic work, etc... there were certainly times when I felt sort of like Jackie Robinson, I felt I had to do everything that much better or I had something to prove. But that was 100% my own trip. And although especially early on my cooking was nothing to write home about. But I mentally compared my own workload to that of the stay-at-home moms I knew... I can't speak for all of them, but I know that while I was doing the majority if not all of the "domestic" stuff- cleaning, laundry, etc. incl child care and diapers, I was also doing all the yard work, the branch trimming, the lawn aeration, that sort of stuff. Most of the SAHMs I knew, their husbands dealt with that on the weekends, or they hired gardeners. So long story short I never felt like I was taking advantage of some awesome deal, work-wise. I have a pretty decent self-appraisal of my own faults; I can be lazy, sure, but I make up for it with furious bouts of getting-lots-of-shit-done... but certainly during the times when I stayed at home I pulled my own share and it absolutely was "work". Hard work, especially with babies.

It's funny, because in one of these discussions, a well-known legendarily toxic and now-banned DU member, in another group, had a Saskatchewan-sized shitfit over the idea that staying home with kids was "a job". Oh, fuck, did she ever get mad about that, with long tirades regarding how sure we'd all love to sit home and eat bon-bons and take calgon baths all day but it's not a real job and of course in "the old days" kids (babies even!) really "raised themselves"

...Yeah.

I've done both. I know a lot of people who've done both. There are advantages- particularly for an anti-social jerk like myself- to being one's own boss and taking care of things on the home front; but most folks I know who've stayed at home have said given the choice they'd see, say, an office gig as the welcome respite. My wife has been up front and honest and said it would have driven her nuts within a very short amount of time. But she also needs to be around people, more than I do. The isolation of it never bugged me, as I know it bugs many stay-at-homes.

But a lot of this stuff, when you get right down to it- and I'm sure some people will get mad at me for saying this- these are battles which need to be fought in our own heads. Lao Tzu or someone claiming to be Lao Tzu made the comment about the man (or woman) who conquers himself (or herself), conquers the world.

Sure, that's happy talk, privilege talk, the talk of SUV driving yuppies who do yoga and read "the secret". But, it's also got some truth. We walk around bounded by these invisible walls and limitations that maybe we didn't put there, but they only exist in our own heads. No one is "stopping" a man from being a stay at home dad by talking shit about him. They're just being assholes.

It's funny, there was another thread about gender expectations and boys growing up. My nephew- perfect example; if I managed to come around in later life to not really caring what other people thought, this kid came right out of the gate with it. He used to wear pink, he broke his arm and got a pink cast... the doctor was like "a pink cast? aren't you worried kids are going to make fun of you?" He didn't care. And guess what- they didn't. He owned it, he just didn't give a shit, he never gave a shit, he wore his not giving a shit like an armored suit.... and the kid still doesn't give a shit.


Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I was not well respected when I was a stay at home dad. ZombieHorde Oct 2013 #1
If you are female and you choose to stay at home with the kids, you're a good mom Major Nikon Oct 2013 #4
That is an accurate assessment. Bonobo Oct 2013 #5
Pretty much, yep... opiate69 Oct 2013 #6
It is patriarchy. ZombieHorde Oct 2013 #8
I could substitute the word "culture" for your "patriarchy" Bonobo Oct 2013 #9
You've hit it on the head. ElboRuum Oct 2013 #71
Yes, it is a form of privilage. ZombieHorde Oct 2013 #7
A third -I think that is optimistic. Denninmi Oct 2013 #2
Half of waking hours, one third if you count sleep. nt Bonobo Oct 2013 #3
privilege to stay at home and not work. no, women do not get much more respect or appreciation seabeyond Oct 2013 #10
Lots of words, little understanding. Bonobo Oct 2013 #11
ability to choose? that really was not what your OP was about. your Op was more acceptable, ya, i seabeyond Oct 2013 #12
That was precisely what my OP was about. Bonobo Oct 2013 #13
no. not about zero. about as many people that appreciate the value of a stay at home mom (and not seabeyond Oct 2013 #15
I do believe you give great respect to stay at home dads. Bonobo Oct 2013 #17
everyone has the choice. what you are really saying is men are respected less if they make that seabeyond Oct 2013 #18
shoot, re reading your Op is see you even recognize this. seabeyond Oct 2013 #14
I did nothing of the kind. Bonobo Oct 2013 #16
Here's what I think you're missing Major Nikon Oct 2013 #34
You nailed it. Bonobo Oct 2013 #38
Feminists do. MadrasT Oct 2013 #39
And we really DO appreciate that! nt Bonobo Oct 2013 #40
Some feminists undoubtedly do, but that is not what feminism is about. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #46
I am not anybody's mom MadrasT Oct 2013 #76
Opinions don't cancel out the choice The2ndWheel Oct 2013 #19
Ridicule is still the individual manifestation of discrimination. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #21
I think hazing is not really a valid analogy. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #24
I wish everyone could stay home The2ndWheel Oct 2013 #45
I worked 25 years before becoming a stay at home dad. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #20
There are a bunch of things going on here, I think. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #22
Okay, Part II: Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #23
It's true enough that the first battlefield of the bullshit war is in our own heads. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #26
Oh, no, I know exactly what you mean. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #27
+1000 about the ACA. n/t lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #28
Wow. RiffRandell Oct 2013 #44
I agree with a lot of what you said. RiffRandell Oct 2013 #43
"Caregiving dads treated disrespectfully at work, study finds" lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author RiffRandell Oct 2013 #29
I'm sorry RR. nt lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author RiffRandell Oct 2013 #31
Sorry, too, Riff. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #32
Thanks, Warren. RiffRandell Oct 2013 #41
Look, everyone, there's a thread in the men's group! Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #33
Yep yep.. of course, opiate69 Oct 2013 #35
But their grandmama's worked! Bonobo Oct 2013 #36
Up Is Up. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #37
Now with 50% more racism!!! ProudToBeBlueInRhody Oct 2013 #47
I'm beginning to think using the Men's group to post links to reading comprehension training lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #53
Let me clarify my position. RiffRandell Oct 2013 #42
I don't think you went off track. Behind the Aegis Oct 2013 #48
Thank you. RiffRandell Oct 2013 #49
You are quite welcome. Behind the Aegis Oct 2013 #64
Trust me, I may take you up on it. RiffRandell Oct 2013 #75
It's times like this... opiate69 Oct 2013 #67
Your comment was perfect. RiffRandell Oct 2013 #74
Def a privilege. Look at the history of staying home. Levon Oct 2013 #50
. cyberswede Oct 2013 #51
"economically unproductive" is an overstatement. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #52
I didn't say unproductive Levon Oct 2013 #58
I think you're misreading the industrial revolution. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #61
Damn, I need to send my 7 year old daughter out to get a job! RiffRandell Oct 2013 #54
You misunderstand me Levon Oct 2013 #60
I think you are "cleverly" trying to understate the role of the stay at home parent ProudToBeBlueInRhody Oct 2013 #55
I used to be one Levon Oct 2013 #56
As opiate69 mentioned upthread... cyberswede Oct 2013 #59
Welcome to DU gopiscrap Oct 2013 #57
Apparently Bonobo Oct 2013 #62
You can tell them over and over it's just a baby ruth bar Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #63
Now that's some fucking funny shit! opiate69 Oct 2013 #65
I love that movie. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #66
lol.. me too.. first time I ever got "heroically" baked, I watched it... opiate69 Oct 2013 #68
I watched it as a double feature with "Cheech and Chong's next movie" lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #72
LMAO! Behind the Aegis Oct 2013 #69
"Check Please!" Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #70
How many couples have the luxury of one being able to stay home R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2013 #73
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